I have a question about a run counting

[GreenSuedeBlue]

There are two outs and there are two baserunners on second and on third
The batter hits a grounder to the Shortstop and doesn't run to first base. The runner on second gets in a pickle between second and third while the runner on third touches home base. The batter starts running to first base and the runner who was on second base is tagged out. The third baseman who made the out throws the ball to the first baseman before the batter gets there. Does that run count??

[Ed Maeder]

The run would count if they touched home before the third out was made by tagging R2. The play at first has no effect in this case.

[NCASAUmp]

Are you talking about a very, VERY slow batter-runner who had yet to touch 1B? If not, then yes, the run counts. However, if Bubba the batter-runner took forever to get to 1B and was put out prior to reaching 1B, then no, the run would not count.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Are you talking about a very, VERY slow batter-runner who had yet to touch 1B? If not, then yes, the run counts. However, if Bubba the batter-runner took forever to get to 1B and was put out prior to reaching 1B, then no, the run would not count.

Why? Are you saying that F5's throw to F3 and F3 subsequent tagging of first base before B/R5 touched first base is an advantageous fourth out appeal?

MTD, Sr.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by GreenSuedeBlue

There are two outs and there are two baserunners on second and on third
The batter hits a grounder to the Shortstop and doesn't run to first base. The runner on second gets in a pickle between second and third while the runner on third touches home base. The batter starts running to first base and the runner who was on second base is tagged out. The third baseman who made the out throws the ball to the first baseman before the batter gets there. Does that run count??

What rule set?

NFHS allows for a 4th out appeal on runners who haven't scored. In this scenario, the run wouldn't have counted because the B/R failed to reach 1B.

ASA, however, doesn't allow 4th out appeals on runners wh haven't scored. In this scenario, the run would count.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

What rule set?

NFHS allows for a 4th out appeal on runners who haven't scored. In this scenario, the run wouldn't have counted because the B/R failed to reach 1B.

ASA, however, doesn't allow 4th out appeals on runners wh haven't scored. In this scenario, the run would count.

But the OP's situation doesn't allow for any type of appeal. They aren't appealing a runner missing a base, leaving early on a caught fly ball, batting out of order, or attempting to advance to second base after making the turn at first. No where in the rule book of any ruleset that I know of does it allow a fourth out appeal on a BR runner on a force at first.

In the OP, the run should count, provided, as I am reading it, the tag of the runner caught between 2nd and 3rd occurs after the R1 touched home.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Why? Are you saying that F5's throw to F3 and F3 subsequent tagging of first base before B/R5 touched first base is an advantageous fourth out appeal?

MTD, Sr.

Wow... My reading skills on this forum has gone downhill dramatically over the last few weeks.

Crap. No. The play on the Batter-Runner does absolutely nothing. One run scores, change 'em up.

Sorry, guys... I'll pay better attention from now on.

[tcblue13]

Is it correct to assume the ball is dead once the third out is made? (NFHS rulebook not in office) Could this play be appealed as long as the throw did beat the runner to first? Is this a situation that is not appealable?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

Is it correct to assume the ball is dead once the third out is made? (NFHS rulebook not in office) Could this play be appealed as long as the throw did beat the runner to first? Is this a situation that is not appealable?

Can't speak for NFHS, but once the third out is made, the third out is made, change sides. Only way to nullify a run in ASA after the third out is if you're appealing a runner who scored.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

Is it correct to assume the ball is dead once the third out is made? (NFHS rulebook not in office) Could this play be appealed as long as the throw did beat the runner to first? Is this a situation that is not appealable?

No. It isn't appealable. Let's say that you have the bases loaded with two outs. F6 fields the ball and tosses it to F5 for an easy out. BR and R3 give up and run to the dugout. Do you really think you can appeal either of them for not reaching the base for a fourth out to negate the run?

Besides, I listed the appealable offenses for NFHS in my last post.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

No. It isn't appealable. Let's say that you have the bases loaded with two outs. F6 fields the ball and tosses it to F5 for an easy out. BR and R3 give up and run to the dugout. Do you really think you can appeal either of them for not reaching the base for a fourth out to negate the run?

Besides, I listed the appealable offenses for NFHS in my last post.

What run?

[MGKBLUE]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

Is it correct to assume the ball is dead once the third out is made? (NFHS rulebook not in office) Could this play be appealed as long as the throw did beat the runner to first? Is this a situation that is not appealable?

This is not an appealable action.

For NFHS, there ia a provision in the rule book that when more than one out is declared that ends an inning, the defensive coach has the option of which out will apply.

Refer to Rule 9.1.1 Exception e:

A run is not scored if the runner advances to home plate during action in which the third out is made as follows:

e. when there is more than one out declared by the umpire which terminates the half inning (the defensive team may select the out which is to its advantage)

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by MGKBLUE

This is not an appealable action.

For NFHS, there ia a provision in the rule book that when more than one out is declared that ends an inning, the defensive coach has the option of which out will apply.

Refer to Rule 9.1.1 Exception e:

A run is not scored if the runner advances to home plate during action in which the third out is made as follows:

e. when there is more than one out declared by the umpire which terminates the half inning (the defensive team may select the out which is to its advantage)

Yep, I was wrong . But, thanks MGKBLUE for pointing out that my concept was correct.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by robbie

What run?

Exactly!

[cloverdale]

heard of 4th out never seen it applied...interesting scenerio... rules quote from case book didnt help...so are we in agreement that the defense has the right to choose the out to nullify the timing play at home?