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Old Sun Apr 19, 2009, 03:55pm
#13 #13 is offline
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Level of Play vs Level of Pay

In my current area, you get mileage for NCAA D1 and a set game fee for D2, D3. In NFHS, we have a higher game fee for Varsity vs. JV or Middle School. When it comes to ASA, whether you call Men's FP or a 10 year old Youth game, it is the same fee, which is less than 1/2 of a NFHS Varsity game.

I don't call strictly for the money (but it is nice at the higher levels). I work from home and it gives me a chance to get outside, get some exercise and I enjoy seeing the Youth go from level to level not too mention establishing relationships with the other folks in Blue. I have a great time out there, keep communication at a high level, seldom have any sportsmanlike problems and being a people person always is a plus to help out with coaches and game management.

My question is, why doesn't ASA pay different for different levels? Maybe it does in some other areas? The ASA booking agent in my area stated to tell him what our availability was on the calendar and what level we will or will not call. Given the same game fee for all levels, my response was I will call Youth only and a max of two days per week. I have seen the Mens FP and it certainly should have a higher game fee. It is much more intense than the biggest NFHS rival games, a higher level of ball and not too mention, we all know those folks like to let you know their opinions loud and clear no matter how stellar your positioning & judgment.

Anyone else ever felt this way?
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Old Sun Apr 19, 2009, 05:45pm
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ASA does not pay for games, the host does. ASA Code only sets minimums.

I have found that the higher level of play, the easier it is to umpire the game. But then again, I also give the same effort for a local league game that I do a national.

I do not change the game I offer based upon the level of play or pay. I would like to think that no good umpire would.
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Old Sun Apr 19, 2009, 06:21pm
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I guess it is a matter of opinion. My association has a price for all youth fastpitch, a different price for youth slowpitch, a third price for adult slowpitch, and a fourth price for adult fastpitch. However, every level and age of each category pays the same, and I expect (and require) that all umpires able to work any category be willing to call at all levels and ages I rate them as capable of calling.

This is part of the mentor and training relationship that we use so that every game has a senior official. Even in-park 10U requires an experienced official, and in order to provide training to newer umpires, the experienced umpires are expected to work the younger ages, too. If a senior umpire accepts 10U in-park to help the cause, it would be a double whammy to also pay him less than the 18 Gold he believes he should have that night; so we don't.
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Old Sun Apr 19, 2009, 08:57pm
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Pay and the rates that are applied seems to always be a floating target.
It usually depends on local, who gets the contract (assignor or an association), is part of what you get paid less an assigning fee.

Tournament pay also seems to differ than regular leagues.

Youth leagues are typically less than high school, and college is usually the best paid per game fees. College you do not do the volume of games that you do for your local youth or adult leagues.

There are lots of variables to the pay rate and how they are applied.
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Old Sun Apr 19, 2009, 09:32pm
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Mens ball does deserve more.. around here the games are longer 145 and we get more based on that, as we should. The problem is we got a JO raise and so far it hasnt caught up to the men yet so there isnt the difference there should be isnt much at this time. As was stated - ASA has no involvement in our contracts. Mens ball is a little different because there is some NAFA involvement as well... since it seems the Male FP leagues pretty much cant get far enough away from ASA...

We also have differences based on sp/fp and JO time limits <140 >140 or no timer. One man is not allowed in JO or mens FP but it is done in SP.
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Last edited by wadeintothem; Sun Apr 19, 2009 at 09:35pm.
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Old Mon Apr 20, 2009, 04:55am
#13 #13 is offline
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Thanks for the feedback folks. I always wondered about this.

Also, I totally agree w/IRISHMAFIA in that no good umpire would change their game based on the level of play.
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Old Mon Apr 20, 2009, 07:31am
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Where I am, every league negotiates their own contract and umpire fees.
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Old Mon Apr 20, 2009, 08:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticNHBlue View Post
Where I am, every league negotiates their own contract and umpire fees.
Same here.
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Old Mon Apr 20, 2009, 09:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skahtboi View Post
Same here.
All of our two man fees are the same, fast pitch or what little slow pitch is around here - 38/ump - fee X 1.5 if your partner does not show up, whatever.

tournaments (two man) are 40/ump

for our youth games, which are generally worked alone we get 50 - one league has Saturday triple headers - NICE

compare to our hs fees of

59 modified (7/8th grade)

68 jv

91 varsity

again, any game worked alone is X 1.5

late start - game starts 30 min or more due to late arrival, late fees are
20 modified
25 jv
30

if we show up and have to cancel we get a 'travel/appearence fee' of 30 for all levels/all sports

in all games, hs and league, one pitch = full fee

we never get travel pay, as this is a pretty compact area we serve - the farthest I have to travel for ANY game is around 40 miles each way...about $8 worth of gas at $3 a gallon for me......even at te worst of last years prices, I never used more than $10 worth of gas.....
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Old Mon Apr 20, 2009, 09:38am
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Just to add a point of irritation, at least for me.

Umpires who register, barely attempt to obtain a minimal amount of training, skimp on uniforms and equipment, only make themselves available for the highest pay-level of games, refuse to help younger umpires, refuse to help their association unless receiving top dollar.

However, many of these putzes will be some of the first to declare they only work the higher level (NFHS/NCAA) of games as if that is a badge of honor.

Then there are the braggarts that don't work SP because that is a "beer league" situation. Those folks should visit OKC during the Battle of the Borders and see how those players feel about that opinion.
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Old Mon Apr 20, 2009, 10:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Just to add a point of irritation, at least for me.

Umpires who register, barely attempt to obtain a minimal amount of training, skimp on uniforms and equipment, only make themselves available for the highest pay-level of games, refuse to help younger umpires, refuse to help their association unless receiving top dollar.

However, many of these putzes will be some of the first to declare they only work the higher level (NFHS/NCAA) of games as if that is a badge of honor.

Then there are the braggarts that don't work SP because that is a "beer league" situation. Those folks should visit OKC during the Battle of the Borders and see how those players feel about that opinion.
On the other hand, in this area at least, with the difficulty covering all of the NJCAA, NAIA, NCAA, and NFHS games, I cannot see anyone committing to work rec leagues until after the College/HS season is over. MY first commitment is to those organizations, and I do not want to inconvenience the local rec leagues by having to cancel out of their games to work a game that was originally scheduled for one day, but because of a rain-out or some other problem had to be rescheduled to another day. That isn't fair to them, nor is it fair to my Collegiate/HS organization to cancel out on a game that I was originally scheduled to work. Therefore, I, for one, do not accept a rec league schedule until the collegiate/HS season is over. By then, many spring rec leagues are already winding down.

Now, do I help out with rec league games from time to time? Sure...if my schedule, both on the field and off of it, will allow me to.

Also, I don't know about the others on here, but for me, umpiring is a hobby. A very serious hobby, but a hobby nonetheless. If I don't have fun working the games, then I am less likely to want to work them. Hence, a 10U paying $35.00 a game is going to be less appealing to me than an 18U paying $20.00. If the two are scheduled on the same day, you can bet that I will take the $20.00 over the $35.00. That's just human nature. Same goes for SP. I am not as likely to see the Battle of the Borders as an umpire as I am the local foundry workers playing the local textile mill workers. The whining, crying, drinking...etc. that goes on locally tends to make the game not as fun to me, and therefore not appealing to umpire. (Besides, I am just not wild about the pace of the "local" game.)

I am sure my local ASA/USSSA/Dixie assignors write me off as someone who sees my umpiring certain groups or levels as a "badge of honor," but it just isn't so. I want to work the level of ball that I find challenging and fun. Is this all that I will work? No. I often find myself working at least a day of a two day 10U tournament because the UIC was having trouble finding enough people who wanted to work that level.

As for working with newbies go, give me a newbie any day of the week. I was working with one on Saturday during a rather important (one team wins and they are in the playoffs...they didn't win) cross town rivalry. We had a good pregame, I made her aware that I wouldn't say anything during the game unless it was extremely important, then we had a very lengthy postgame (about three hours at a local bar/restaurant), where another experienced umpire who was at the game joined us with his feedback (on both of us.)

Of course, I have more uniforms than I really need (10 pairs of pants, I have no clue how many shirts total with ASA, USSSA, HS...etc., three pairs plate shoes, two pair field, at least 4 hats for each organization, at least 4, though usually 6, ball bags for every organization and so on.) I attend all the requisite training and some that isn't required. I study the rules/mechanics/philosophy of umpiring almost daily.

Makes me wonder, though, if assignors/UIC's make the distinction between the "greens" (umpires who just work for money), and those of us who do this as a hobby, and not a way of life.
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Old Mon Apr 20, 2009, 10:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Just to add a point of irritation, at least for me.

Umpires who register, barely attempt to obtain a minimal amount of training, skimp on uniforms and equipment, only make themselves available for the highest pay-level of games, refuse to help younger umpires, refuse to help their association unless receiving top dollar.

However, many of these putzes will be some of the first to declare they only work the higher level (NFHS/NCAA) of games as if that is a badge of honor.

Then there are the braggarts that don't work SP because that is a "beer league" situation. Those folks should visit OKC during the Battle of the Borders and see how those players feel about that opinion.
For the record, I don't do slo-pitch (except very occasionally as a favor).
1) I have spent my time and energy learning fast pitch
2) I enjoy fast pitch
3) Slo Pitch is not fast pitch
(I don't do much baseball for the same reasons)
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Old Mon Apr 20, 2009, 11:17am
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For the record, I expected some push back here, but stand by my comments.

I do not disagree that there are priorities, but I did not state anything about breaking into a season, though there are people who will do NPF, HS, NCAA, NAIA, NJCAA, rec FP & SP all during the same season. I am actually referring more to those who take the big money and run after the FP season is completed never to be heard from again until the following season. Meetings, clinics, fund raisers.....what are those?

If you are a member of an association which contracts multiple leagues and games and they need help, the umpire is still a member of that association and should help when possible. If an assignor wants to take care of those who take care of the association with better and more profitable assignments, I have no problem with that, within reason.
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Old Mon Apr 20, 2009, 01:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
If you are a member of an association which contracts multiple leagues and games and they need help, the umpire is still a member of that association and should help when possible.
I won't argue with that. However, there are varying degrees of "when possible." For example, this week, I will have worked every day or night umpiring or going to an umpire related meeting. This means that at least 5 hours of my day (often more) after work will have been consumed with umpiring. This Saturday, I have already been contacted by my HS assignor and two local ASA assignors about working games. I have declined all of them, because a) I want some time off, and b) I still like to spend time with my family and c) this weekend is Germanfest, and we had to miss it last year because I was umpiring, so I told my wife I would be sure not to schedule any games this year. Now, I am sure that all three of those assignors are probably assuming that I am not there when they need me, or something along those lines, but you know the old saying about when you "assume" something....
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Old Mon Apr 20, 2009, 01:58pm
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Originally Posted by Skahtboi View Post
I won't argue with that. However, there are varying degrees of "when possible." For example, this week, I will have worked every day or night umpiring or going to an umpire related meeting. This means that at least 5 hours of my day (often more) after work will have been consumed with umpiring. This Saturday, I have already been contacted by my HS assignor and two local ASA assignors about working games. I have declined all of them, because a) I want some time off, and b) I still like to spend time with my family and c) this weekend is Germanfest, and we had to miss it last year because I was umpiring, so I told my wife I would be sure not to schedule any games this year. Now, I am sure that all three of those assignors are probably assuming that I am not there when they need me, or something along those lines, but you know the old saying about when you "assume" something....
You know what I have to say about this? Germanfest? What, have the Texas German's missed Oktoberfest by more than the month like the rest of those in this country do?

I am a firm believer in taking time off for family and a life. Of course, I would suggest this is part of a predetermined schedule made known to all assignors in advance instead of waiting for a call to turn them away.
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