Extra warm up pitches

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Yep! And there isn't anything we can do about it.

The hell there isn't!! You can (and I do) refuse to allow the extra pitches when the coach delays the game. Your game; not his. The one minute between innings applies to everyone; it is a reasonable amount of time for the offense to get ready, and the defense to warm up. It is an equally reasonable amount of time for a coach to tell you about a normal substitution.

Granted, he may have 4 changes, and looks at the lineup card to be sure we are getting it right; fine. If he started that process in a reasonable time, it is what it is. If he waits the full minute, then comes to me, his delay, not the umpire's delay, so the exception does not apply.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Granted, he may have 4 changes, and looks at the lineup card to be sure we are getting it right; fine. If he started that process in a reasonable time, it is what it is. If he waits the full minute, then comes to me, his delay, not the umpire's delay, so the exception does not apply.

And if the pitcher wants to toss a few to F5 during that period, fine by me. I have no problem with the pitcher toning their skills of throwing overhand to a base to get an out. Very few things are as disappointing as a ball back to the pitcher for the 3rd out only to have the pitcher throw it anywhere, but to the player covering the base.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The hell there isn't!! You can (and I do) refuse to allow the extra pitches when the coach delays the game. Your game; not his. The one minute between innings applies to everyone; it is a reasonable amount of time for the offense to get ready, and the defense to warm up. It is an equally reasonable amount of time for a coach to tell you about a normal substitution.

Granted, he may have 4 changes, and looks at the lineup card to be sure we are getting it right; fine. If he started that process in a reasonable time, it is what it is. If he waits the full minute, then comes to me, his delay, not the umpire's delay, so the exception does not apply.

Well, if I've got a coach who appears to be on the ball, handles things in a timely manner, and does that only once, I've got no problem with it. It's allowable within the rules. If I get a whiff that the coach is trying to pull something, then I'll tell the pitcher to stop warming up while I deal with the coach.

But by rule, if we're engaged in handling substitutions with a coach, yeah, they can continue warming up. Good game management dictates otherwise, but it's written in black and white.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Worked a HS game yesterday where the coach not only couldn't remember her changes, but had a hard time figuring out who was wearing what number.

About 45 seconds into the coach's memory lapse, the pitcher had used her warm-up allotment, I cleaned the PP, returned to my position, looked up and saw the coach FINALLY pull out a line-up card to help her.

The temps were in the low 40s with 20+ mph winds. There was no way I was telling this pitcher she had to just stand there.

I have a feeling this coach was the closest thing to an athletic female teacher at the school and was thrown into the coaching position. Team couldn't play for $hit, both pitchers were illegal and actually got worse as the game progressed.

I spent a portion of the game coaching the coaches of this team. Luckily, the opponent's staff understood as I kept them in the loop. The field did not have any lights and I wanted to get the game done while I could still feel my fingers and toes.

Told the assigner I need more money if I was going to umpire and coach at the same time.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Worked a HS game

Am I reading this correctly?

NEWS FLASH ??

I didn't know there was HS slow pitch in Delaware.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Am I reading this correctly?

NEWS FLASH ??

I didn't know there was HS slow pitch in Delaware.

Hey... yeah! Something did start buzzing around in my head when Irish said something about HS ball, but I couldn't put my finger on it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Am I reading this correctly?

NEWS FLASH ??

I didn't know there was HS slow pitch in Delaware.

Actually, I have helped out in the past, also, just don't make a big deal out of it. Only work when there are more games than umpires which happens more than one would think since the local HS association does absolutely nothing to help coordinate schedules to facilitate proper coverage.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Actually, I have helped out in the past, also, just don't make a big deal out of it.

Were you helping out on the bases or behind the plate?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

Were you helping out on the bases or behind the plate?

Though I carry plate gear and am prepared to take the dish IF NECESSARY, I don't believe it is fair to teams for me to use their varsity league games to bone up on my game.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Am I reading this correctly?

NEWS FLASH ??

I didn't know there was HS slow pitch in Delaware.

State UIC. Knows, and capable of calling fastpitch; just not his preferred game. Could be way worse when they are short of qualified umpires, I think.

OK, also my friend. Still think what is above applies.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Your game; not his.

Steve, with all due respect, I have a fundamental problem with your statement here. This game is not our game as umpires. It's theirs - the players and coaches... I'm sure you're well aware of this.

[stevegarbs]

Originally Posted by SRW

Steve, with all due respect, I have a fundamental problem with your statement here. This game is not our game as umpires. It's theirs - the players and coaches... I'm sure you're well aware of this.

Thanks for saying this; as a softball coach and long-time football official, I found this statement hard to accept. The game belongs to the players. Coaches and umpires are there to make sure the players are doing it safely and fairly. It's not our game.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by stevegarbs

Thanks for saying this; as a softball coach and long-time football official, I found this statement hard to accept. The game belongs to the players. Coaches and umpires are there to make sure the players are doing it safely and fairly. It's not our game.

Very true, but part of our responsibilities as umpires is to make sure the game moves along at a decent pace. If a coach employs tactics to hasten or delay a game, or to unfairly gain an edge over another coach, then that's when we need to step in.

It's going to have to be pretty obvious for me to do anything about this, though. As long as the game's progressing and it doesn't appear to be some cheap tactic to get more warm-ups, I'm not saying anything.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, if I've got a coach who appears to be on the ball, handles things in a timely manner, and does that only once, I've got no problem with it. It's allowable within the rules. If I get a whiff that the coach is trying to pull something, then I'll tell the pitcher to stop warming up while I deal with the coach.

But by rule, if we're engaged in handling substitutions with a coach, yeah, they can continue warming up. Good game management dictates otherwise, but it's written in black and white.

Read the black and white, though; it says "if the umpire delays the start of play". The umpire didn't, the coach did. If I have to, I will make the coach give me the substitution standing at home plate, and report it to the other team from there. The coach does not get a benefit for delaying.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not always a hard case about this. We are talking about the cases where we know what they are doing, and you say we have no options. The black and white is we do NOT have allow additional warmup pitches.

Originally Posted by SRW

Steve, with all due respect, I have a fundamental problem with your statement here. This game is not our game as umpires. It's theirs - the players and coaches... I'm sure you're well aware of this.

Poorly chosen wording on my part, I agree. What I meant was we manage the game, we don't allow the coach to manage (manipulate) us.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Read the black and white, though; it says "if the umpire delays the start of play". The umpire didn't, the coach did. If I have to, I will make the coach give me the substitution standing at home plate, and report it to the other team from there. The coach does not get a benefit for delaying.

So you're saying that the process of handling substitutions is not a reason to allow extra warm-up pitches because the coach initiates the process? Then why is it specifically mentioned in the rulebook as an example of when we should allow the extra warm-up pitches?