Extra warm up pitches

[BuggBob]

What is the word on extra warm up pitches in NFHS, ASA, NCAA? Pitcher pitches five warm-up pitches, but the umpire is engaged with umpire duties elsewhere and in not ready to proceed, can the pitcher continue to “warm-up?”

After warm-ups, if the catcher is temporarily unavailable, (tending to a minor first-aid issue) can the pitcher practice low speed pitches with F5? I told the pitcher to hold the ball; coach asked, “Why can’t she throw?” “This is the NCAA coach, she gets five and no more.” Was I right?

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

What is the word on extra warm up pitches in NFHS, ASA, NCAA? Pitcher pitches five warm-up pitches, but the umpire is engaged with umpire duties elsewhere and in not ready to proceed, can the pitcher continue to “warm-up?”

Yes

Originally Posted by BuggBob

After warm-ups, if the catcher is temporarily unavailable, (tending to a minor first-aid issue) can the pitcher practice low speed pitches with F5? I told the pitcher to hold the ball; coach asked, “Why can’t she throw?” “This is the NCAA coach, she gets five and no more.” Was I right?

No

[NCASAUmp]

Speaking ASA, if the umpire is engaged in other duties (substitutions, injuries, etc.), the pitcher is allowed to exceed the normal allotment of 5 (or 3 for SP). There's nothing in the book that says they HAVE to use F2 to catch the warm-up pitches, but I wouldn't feel right allowing another fielder to go behind the plate without the proper protective equipment. Personally, I think you'd be justified in prohibiting such action.

IF NCAA doesn't allow extra warm-up pitches (meaning "that's 5, and that's it, period.") when an umpire is engaged elsewhere, then I'd say what you did was merely preventative umpiring. Someone else will have to clarify that, though.

Oops, someone already did.

[wadeintothem]

Where does it say they can get extra warm up pitches in ASA?

If the PU is engaged in other duties the BU should be monitoring that.

They get 5 pitches or 1 min, whichever is first.

[Dakota]

No warm up pitches to any minor not wearing a helmet. I define "warm up pitches" as an underhand throw.

[Stu Clary]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Where does it say they can get extra warm up pitches in ASA?

Rule 6, section 9.

[wadeintothem]

That is very interesting, at the Gold Sector BU was told to monitor that and I never really questioned it after that. It does make one wonder how an umpire could delay the game for a substitution, since it is normally the coaches doing the subbing, but its definately there. Thanks!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

That is very interesting, at the Gold Sector BU was told to monitor that and I never really questioned it after that. It does make one wonder how an umpire could delay the game for a substitution, since it is normally the coaches doing the subbing, but its definately there. Thanks!

You're assuming a coach is smart enough to get all their substitutions to you smoothly.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

You're assuming a coach is smart enough to get all their substitutions to you smoothly.

If the coach is particularly smart and wants extra warm-ups, he waits until the pitcher has thrown for and then comes out to stumble through his substitutions.
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[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by youngump

If the coach is particularly smart and wants extra warm-ups, he waits until the pitcher has thrown for and then comes out to stumble through his substitutions.

Yep! And there isn't anything we can do about it.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Speaking ASA, if the umpire is engaged in other duties (substitutions, injuries, etc.), the pitcher is allowed to exceed the normal allotment of 5 (or 3 for SP). There's nothing in the book that says they HAVE to use F2 to catch the warm-up pitches, but I wouldn't feel right allowing another fielder to go behind the plate without the proper protective equipment. Personally, I think you'd be justified in prohibiting such action.

IF NCAA doesn't allow extra warm-up pitches (meaning "that's 5, and that's it, period.") when an umpire is engaged elsewhere, then I'd say what you did was merely preventative umpiring. Someone else will have to clarify that, though.

Oops, someone already did.

In ASA and NFHS, if a pitcher takes excess pitches when the umpire is busy, that's the umpire's fault for not being ready. The only time I would refuse to allow the extra pitches in those games is when the coach waited to tell me about the substitutions, and I think he did that to get extra warm-up (that MAY be what Wade's direction was about).

In the NCAA, the pitcher may not throw excess warmup pitches; there is no provision except in "a substantial delay". If I am asked if it is okay, and I agree it has been a delay, then I have no problem granting the request. If not asked, there has been no permission or tacit approval.

Throwing to another infielder, however, isn't a warm-up pitch; the NCAA defines a warmup pitch (Rule 1-119) as "Any pitch delivered to the plate during a suspension of play." That means we cannot refuse it, even if underhanded, even if without a mask, as long as it isn't delivered to the plate. This is the same rule application that allows catchers anywhere except behind the plate to refuse to wear a mask; only pitches thrown to the plate are monitored.

The only other way to legally refuse the extra throws is if the game is ready to continue, and she is delaying the game.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Yep! And there isn't anything we can do about it.

The hell there isn't!! You can (and I do) refuse to allow the extra pitches when the coach delays the game. Your game; not his. The one minute between innings applies to everyone; it is a reasonable amount of time for the offense to get ready, and the defense to warm up. It is an equally reasonable amount of time for a coach to tell you about a normal substitution.

Granted, he may have 4 changes, and looks at the lineup card to be sure we are getting it right; fine. If he started that process in a reasonable time, it is what it is. If he waits the full minute, then comes to me, his delay, not the umpire's delay, so the exception does not apply.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Granted, he may have 4 changes, and looks at the lineup card to be sure we are getting it right; fine. If he started that process in a reasonable time, it is what it is. If he waits the full minute, then comes to me, his delay, not the umpire's delay, so the exception does not apply.

And if the pitcher wants to toss a few to F5 during that period, fine by me. I have no problem with the pitcher toning their skills of throwing overhand to a base to get an out. Very few things are as disappointing as a ball back to the pitcher for the 3rd out only to have the pitcher throw it anywhere, but to the player covering the base.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The hell there isn't!! You can (and I do) refuse to allow the extra pitches when the coach delays the game. Your game; not his. The one minute between innings applies to everyone; it is a reasonable amount of time for the offense to get ready, and the defense to warm up. It is an equally reasonable amount of time for a coach to tell you about a normal substitution.

Granted, he may have 4 changes, and looks at the lineup card to be sure we are getting it right; fine. If he started that process in a reasonable time, it is what it is. If he waits the full minute, then comes to me, his delay, not the umpire's delay, so the exception does not apply.

Well, if I've got a coach who appears to be on the ball, handles things in a timely manner, and does that only once, I've got no problem with it. It's allowable within the rules. If I get a whiff that the coach is trying to pull something, then I'll tell the pitcher to stop warming up while I deal with the coach.

But by rule, if we're engaged in handling substitutions with a coach, yeah, they can continue warming up. Good game management dictates otherwise, but it's written in black and white.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Worked a HS game yesterday where the coach not only couldn't remember her changes, but had a hard time figuring out who was wearing what number.

About 45 seconds into the coach's memory lapse, the pitcher had used her warm-up allotment, I cleaned the PP, returned to my position, looked up and saw the coach FINALLY pull out a line-up card to help her.

The temps were in the low 40s with 20+ mph winds. There was no way I was telling this pitcher she had to just stand there.

I have a feeling this coach was the closest thing to an athletic female teacher at the school and was thrown into the coaching position. Team couldn't play for $hit, both pitchers were illegal and actually got worse as the game progressed.

I spent a portion of the game coaching the coaches of this team. Luckily, the opponent's staff understood as I kept them in the loop. The field did not have any lights and I wanted to get the game done while I could still feel my fingers and toes.

Told the assigner I need more money if I was going to umpire and coach at the same time.