Federation play

[rwest]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Probably nothing until one team or the other reacts (except shoot myself for calling time).
However, I agree with Tom on the case play item #2 meaning until it is time for the next pitch, even if another batter has not appeared.

In the OP, it seems the batter thought it was a steal of HP and did not register that it was strike 3, DMB.

First of all the batter has 10 seconds to get into the batters box. So, that time will expire before the time the pitcher has to pitch will. The on deck batter may not know she is due up anyway since the BR is clueless. So who are you going to put in the batter's box? The BR or the on deck batter? You just called strike three on the BR. It was a dropped third strike but she didn't run. You can't get her out on rule 8-2 because none of the scenarios apply yet. You can't get to the next pitch until you have a batter in the box. So, again which batter are you going to call up to bat? If you put the BR in the box and then tell the pitcher to pitch, you can then call her out. But then explain to the coach why you let a batter who already had three strikes on her in the box. You can't call the On deck batter up to bat unless you do something with the BR. You can't call her out because she has not been put out.

I still say put the ball in play, hold up the pitcher, and tell everyone that I have a dropped third strike and watch what happens.

Is there any rule that specifically says that a runner who fails to advance to a base is out? I don't have my rule book handy. I don't mean a rule that we interpret that way. But a clear rule that says failure to advance is an out.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by ronald

Federation rules

One of our umpires had a play in a scrimmage yesterday. Our commissioner is the interpreter for Maryland and gave us the ruling and stated it came from the National Office. I am going to call him back and make sure of what he said before I give you his/their answer. In the meantime, you can give your thoughts.


Bases loaded, 1 ball, 2 strikes. 2 outs. Next pitch is a strike that the catcher misses. The batter backs away from home plate, the runner from 3rd runs home and is safe on play at the plate. Pitcher covered. Umpire lets the dust settle, calls time, cleans the plate, looks up and sees the batter back to the side and rear of home plate.

What are you going to do?

We had strike 3 and BR chose not to advance. I can't make the ball live until I've got a batter ready and the pitcher & catcher ready. So, when I can make the ball live, if this BR is not on 1B, she's out and the run is removed. If this BR is on 1B when I can make the ball live, all previous stuff stands.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Steve M

We had strike 3 and BR chose not to advance. I can't make the ball live until I've got a batter ready and the pitcher & catcher ready. So, when I can make the ball live, if this BR is not on 1B, she's out and the run is removed. If this BR is on 1B when I can make the ball live, all previous stuff stands.

Based on what rule and what rule set? In Fed you can't get an out unless she fails to advance before a) the next pitch, b) she has left the field of play or C) the infielders have left the diamond. None of these have occurred in the OP.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by rwest

...In Fed you can't get an out unless she fails to advance before a) the next pitch,...

The technicality I'm hanging my hat on, from the case play:

she did not reach the base before the time of the next pitch

Doesn't exactly say there has to BE a next pitch. Only that is it time for it.

[CajunNewBlue]

Ok, after reading all of the above... IMHO, if you actually screw up like the OP umpire did. You turn, tell the batter to go sit down as she is OUT. and wait for your well deserved @ss chewing and you never ever ever do that again.

Calling time killed the opportunity for the BR to advance to 1st and the 3rd strike was valid... So she is out and the sides change. and do not score the run.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Dakota

The technicality I'm hanging my hat on, from the case play: Doesn't exactly say there has to BE a next pitch. Only that is it time for it.

And you can't reach the time of the next pitch unless the ball is live. You aren't going to make the ball live unitl you have a batter in the box. So you can't just wait the 20 seconds the pitcher has to pitch and then call the BR out.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by rwest

And you can't reach the time of the next pitch unless the ball is live. You aren't going to make the ball live unitl you have a batter in the box.

Says who? It's as valid as calling TIME with a play still ongoing!

So you can't just wait the 20 seconds the pitcher has to pitch and then call the BR out.

Oh yeah?

OK, what's YOUR solution?

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by rwest

Based on what rule and what rule set? In Fed you can't get an out unless she fails to advance before a) the next pitch, b) she has left the field of play or C) the infielders have left the diamond. None of these have occurred in the OP.

If this "semi-retired" BR - how's that for a description? - is not on 1B when I have a batter and pitcher and catcher all ready (so that the ball can be put into play), she's out. You can call it whatever you want - even a look-back violation for all I care.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Steve M

If this "semi-retired" BR - how's that for a description? - is not on 1B when I have a batter and pitcher and catcher all ready (so that the ball can be put into play), she's out. You can call it whatever you want - even a look-back violation for all I care.

You'd lose that one on protest, because the lookback rule wasn't in effect until the BR was called out for failing to advance or touched first base.
________
Glass weed pipe

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by youngump

You'd lose that one on protest, because the lookback rule wasn't in effect until the BR was called out for failing to advance or touched first base.

This whole play is 3rd world, so I'm going to add a legitimate local twist - there are no protests in Pa's Fed ball.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I don't have a rule reference here, so I'm going to rule as if I was making up the rule.

As stated in the OP, the batter is still hovering around HP, not knowing that she just took a 3rd strike. After all the dust has settled, and unfortunately because time was called, and everyone is back in position, if that batter is still at HP, she will be called out for failing to advance to 1B before the time of the next pitch. There doesn't have to be a next pitch, only that everyone is sorta ready for a next pitch.

Some thoughts:

1. Although time had been called, if the defense is alert enough, or someone wakes them up [coach, parent, fan], I think they could still make a dead ball appeal at 1B where the runner never advanced. Appeal upheald, BR out, no run scores.
2. Although time had been called, if someone finally managed to whisper into the BR's earhole and she snuck on down to 1B and was standing on the base, now I'm stuck. I don't think anyone can advance during a dead ball [unless a base award]. So if the next batter comes to bat, and the struck-out batter managed to obtain 1B during a dead ball, do I call her out? Does the defense have to appeal? What do they appeal?

Ted

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ronald

Bases loaded, 1 ball, 2 strikes. 2 outs. Next pitch is a strike that the catcher misses. The batter backs away from home plate, the runner from 3rd runs home and is safe on play at the plate. Pitcher covered. Umpire lets the dust settle, calls time, cleans the plate, looks up and sees the batter back to the side and rear of home plate.

What are you going to do?

Say, "Oh ****" to myself. Point to the ODB and say, "next batter" and hope the girl at the plate just walks into the dugout

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Say, "Oh ****" to myself. Point to the ODB and say, "next batter" and hope the girl at the plate just walks into the dugout

in the OP there are two outs already.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

in the OP there are two outs already.

Yeah, but once she enters the dugout..........

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yeah, but once she enters the dugout..........

ahhhh!!! dude, i like the way you think!!