When does player officially leave the game

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

How's this for a philosophy?

If she isn't physically capable to stand in one spot on defense, she probably shouldn't be batting and running the bases, either.

Or,

You can't have a DP without the FLEX.

All great, but is there an advantage gained?
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SecretCharm live

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by youngump

All great, but is there an advantage gained?

I really doesn't matter. The shorthanded rule is there, as Mike has said over and over, to give the shorthanded team a break and avoid a forfeit. The rule about no re-entry of the player who leaves to create the shorthanded situation is to prevent it from becoming anything else.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by youngump

All great, but is there an advantage gained?

Would you not called an illegal pitch because there was no advantage gained?

Just because there is no "advantage gained", if it is a violation of the
rule set you are utilizing, you should call it. Don't believe that any rule set
says forget it if "No Advantage is gained."

[youngump]

Originally Posted by whiskers_ump

Would you not called an illegal pitch because there was no advantage gained?

Just because there is no "advantage gained", if it is a violation of the
rule set you are utilizing, you should call it. Don't believe that any rule set
says forget it if "No Advantage is gained."

Perhaps I've been unclear here. I don't see any ambiguity in the rule. If we go shorthanded, I know not to let the player back in. I'm questioning the worth of the rule as written by asking how the defense gains any advantage from playing 8 players instead of 9.
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RECALL ZOLOFT

[Dakota]

Defense or offense, they would gain an advantage beyond merely allowing the game to continue. They would be allowed to remove a player from the game without having a sub available and then re-enter that player.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Defense or offense, they would gain an advantage beyond merely allowing the game to continue. They would be allowed to remove a player from the game without having a sub available and then re-enter that player.

Tom, I don't mean to come across as dense, but I'm not getting it. I don't see the advantage to that. The only reason you'd call that an advantage is because it'd be suspending some other rule. If there were no rule that said that you couldn't play defense with less people, would there be an argument for making one?
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Roll a joint

[Dakota]

They would have a substitution option not otherwise provided in the rules.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

Tom, I don't mean to come across as dense, but I'm not getting it. I don't see the advantage to that. The only reason you'd call that an advantage is because it'd be suspending some other rule. If there were no rule that said that you couldn't play defense with less people, would there be an argument for making one?

Maybe the fielder just sucks and would be a detriment to the team in the field, but can hit like crazy. That is the sole purpose of the DH in some little ball circles.

Or maybe it is just a matter of decorum. An instrument to keep order. What happens when the Flex does not enter the field to play defense? She's out of the game. But why, where is the advantage to either team if this rule is not applied?

For that matter, since people can cover their face for religious reasons when having their photograph taken for a driver's license and/or passport, why bother having the photos at all? Since the rule isn't applied to all.....

[strike4]

Thanks for all the input. I let the player re-enter the game. When I got home and was thinking about the game, I realized that I may have been in wrong.

It is good to have these type discussions so we will be able to explain our decision to a coach when asked.

If we learn from our mistakes, and the mistakes of others, we will be better umpires in the future.

[Dakota]

The following paragraph from the ASA RS 48 might help clarify the "why when there is no advantage" discussion:

The purpose of this rule is to allow all players on a team to play without fear of injury or illness that previously created forfeitures. Playing shorthanded is not a strategic option for a coach.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by strike4

If we learn from our mistakes, and the mistakes of others, we will be better umpires in the future.

I agree with that up to a point.

And that point is that if that were truly the case, then I should be a pretty damn awesome umpire by now!

Just kidding, your statement is very true.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I agree with that up to a point.

And that point is that if that were truly the case, then I should be a pretty damn awesome umpire by now!

Just kidding, your statement is very true.

Actually, you are correct (as in the "up to a point" remark).

We only learn when we realize there may have been an error on our behalf and strive to confirm and make the proper correction.

I'm sure we have all run into Ol' Smitty that has been doing it the same way for more than a hundred years. Got his start doing sandlot ball for Connie Mack and is so good, never needed to attend a clinic or school. After all, with all his years, how in the world could those young whippersnappers know anything more than Ol' Smitty?

The only thing that encourages me more than a young umpire getting a tough call right on the field is seeing that umpire getting back to his/her car and pulling out the rule book to confirm their call was correct or finding out what they did wrong. That type of umpire will rarely, if ever, make the same mistake twice.

[NCASAUmp]

That's why the first word in that sentence is, perhaps, the most crucial.

If.

[JefferMC]

For anyone who still needs one, I can think of an advantage to be gained...

Say it's 105 degrees in the shade. Your pitcher (or catcher, or...) is looking a little woozy from the heat. Sitting her down to cool off when the other team can't/won't/didn't for their respective player would be an advantage. You can cool off a lot better on the bench where you've got ice than standing out in left field.