When does player officially leave the game

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by strike4

Team has 9 players to start the game. Player gets hurt as BR when she is called out. She does not play on defense for 2 innings. When her next time at bat comes up, she bats. Since the team only had 9 players, she was never replaced by a substitute and the team played defense with 8 players.

Question: Did she officially leave the game when she got hurt and re-entered to bat, or was she still officially in the game even though she did not play defense? Remember, she never missed a time at bat.

I got to learn this rule first hand at a Women's ASA FP National. Exact scenario you cited happened at my game. Player got overheated and left game, no subs available. About two innings later she came back and I allowed it. Found out after the game, from the UIC, that I shouldn't have allowed it (made no difference in the game as the shorthanded team was getting it handed to them anyway, and opposing team was happy she came back). Once they took field and played without her, she had left the game. Rules do not permit her to come back.

Personally, I don't understand why the player isn't allowed to come back. I'm sure the rule serves to protect some advantage but don't see what it is.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

Personally, I don't understand why the player isn't allowed to come back. I'm sure the rule serves to protect some advantage but don't see what it is.

Remember the alternative prior to the shorthanded rule. The idea of the rule was to avoid forfeits. The team is already being given a break by being allowed to continue play as opposed to packing their bags.

Since a team can start or continue play with less than the "required" number of players without qualifying a cause, I guess there could be an abuse of the rule.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

Personally, I don't understand why the player isn't allowed to come back. I'm sure the rule serves to protect some advantage but don't see what it is.

Simple. Goes like this...

"Oh coach, I'm not batting so well today."

"No problem, Mary. Fake an injury and we'll go shorthanded. After your batting spot is skipped, we'll put you back on defense in this tight game."

"Thanks, coach! You're swell!"

Okay, cheesy, I know. But don't think for a moment that a coach wouldn't pull that if given the option.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Simple. Goes like this...

"Oh coach, I'm not batting so well today."

"No problem, Mary. Fake an injury and we'll go shorthanded. After your batting spot is skipped, we'll put you back on defense in this tight game."

"Thanks, coach! You're swell!"

Okay, cheesy, I know. But don't think for a moment that a coach wouldn't pull that if given the option.

But that would result in an out. The advantage to not playing defense is the question.
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Web shows

[Dakota]

Assume runners on 1st and 3rd, 1 out. B9 due up, tends to GIDP. B1 follows who has a 500 OBP and a 400 BA. Coaches play the odds. But, it would be simpler to just give B9 the "take" sign on every pitch...

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by youngump

But that would result in an out. The advantage to not playing defense is the question.

How's this for a philosophy?

If she isn't physically capable to stand in one spot on defense, she probably shouldn't be batting and running the bases, either.

Or,

You can't have a DP without the FLEX.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

How's this for a philosophy?

If she isn't physically capable to stand in one spot on defense, she probably shouldn't be batting and running the bases, either.

Or,

You can't have a DP without the FLEX.

All great, but is there an advantage gained?
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SecretCharm live

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by youngump

All great, but is there an advantage gained?

I really doesn't matter. The shorthanded rule is there, as Mike has said over and over, to give the shorthanded team a break and avoid a forfeit. The rule about no re-entry of the player who leaves to create the shorthanded situation is to prevent it from becoming anything else.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by youngump

All great, but is there an advantage gained?

Would you not called an illegal pitch because there was no advantage gained?

Just because there is no "advantage gained", if it is a violation of the
rule set you are utilizing, you should call it. Don't believe that any rule set
says forget it if "No Advantage is gained."

[youngump]

Originally Posted by whiskers_ump

Would you not called an illegal pitch because there was no advantage gained?

Just because there is no "advantage gained", if it is a violation of the
rule set you are utilizing, you should call it. Don't believe that any rule set
says forget it if "No Advantage is gained."

Perhaps I've been unclear here. I don't see any ambiguity in the rule. If we go shorthanded, I know not to let the player back in. I'm questioning the worth of the rule as written by asking how the defense gains any advantage from playing 8 players instead of 9.
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RECALL ZOLOFT

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Simple. Goes like this...

"Oh coach, I'm not batting so well today."

"No problem, Mary. Fake an injury and we'll go shorthanded. After your batting spot is skipped, we'll put you back on defense in this tight game."

"Thanks, coach! You're swell!"

Okay, cheesy, I know. But don't think for a moment that a coach wouldn't pull that if given the option.

"Oh, coach, it's so hot. And, if I have to field a ball, I might break a nail."

"Mary, we would forfeit if you don't play. I know you like to hit, so how about if we just say you are injured, and you can hit so we don't forfeit." Meanwhile, Coach is thinking "She isn't any help on defense, anyway; always thinking she might break a nail if she actually had to field the ball."