Proposed ASA Rule Changes #1

[PtotheB]

Sometimes I feel that the people that make the decisions are too far removed from the working stiff umpires. When I do a tournament I will do around 8-10 games on a Saturday. By the time 3 p.m. rolls around, the area around home plate is usually reduced to moon dust. The lighter the color of my uniform the better it absorbs the dust without making me look like I just got hit with a dust grenade. Most of the time we'll switch to Navy shirts when the sun goes down but by that time I'm numb and don't care. We're not all calling double headers on Hall of Fame field, keep the light colors and let me worry about others respecting my authortay! I do just fine as it is.

[tcannizzo]

Bunt – A batted ball not swung at, but instead hit by the batter who holds the bat in the path of the ball and taps it slowly within the infield
a.) Define "swung"
b.) Define "slowly" - there is something called a push bunt which is a hard bunt intended to pass the pitcher or an agreessively charging defender.
c.) "Infield" implies fair territory, which would conflict with a 3rd strike bunt foul.

Charged Conference – It is not a charged conference if the pitcher is removed from the pitching position during a conference.
Comment: Free ticket for coach abuse. Call time, go talk to your SS/2B, change the pitcher, no charge. Next inning, change pitchers back to original.

Eliminate disqualification for an unreported substitute violation.
Comment: This change should be for JO only. This is not a bad rule for adult ball as there is more liklihood for the adult player to be deliberatley involved in the unreported violation. Thus punishes a kid who is more likely to be an innocent victim.

“When the catcher requests time to speak to the pitcher, base runner may not abandon the vicinity of their bases without it being a charged offensive conference. Note: If either team is charged with a conference, runners are no longer restricted to the area near their base.
Comment: Needs better wording. What about other dead ball situations like injury delays, field maintenance delays, etc.

Allow an unlimited batting order in Girl’s B FP and all FP pool play.
Comment: Good change.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

That's not sweat. That's real urine, cuz I just found out I'm gonna get to see SRW's flying safe sells from 58 feet away (that's assuming I trail the runner at least two feet up the line).

Oh you're in for it now.

[Dakota]

Some comments on your comments...

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Bunt – A batted ball not swung at, but instead hit by the batter who holds the bat in the path of the ball and taps it slowly within the infield
a.) Define "swung"
b.) Define "slowly" - there is something called a push bunt which is a hard bunt intended to pass the pitcher or an agreessively charging defender.
c.) "Infield" implies fair territory, which would conflict with a 3rd strike bunt foul.

I disagree that any of these need to be clarified; however, it would help if the RS clarified whether a drag bunt is a bunt. "Swing" and "slowly" are handled by umpire judgment, and I would imagine there would be considerable consistency in that. The phrase "bunt foul" in rule 7-6-G is pretty clear that it means "attempted bunt that goes foul."

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Charged Conference – It is not a charged conference if the pitcher is removed from the pitching position during a conference.
Comment: Free ticket for coach abuse. Call time, go talk to your SS/2B, change the pitcher, no charge. Next inning, change pitchers back to original.

Coach could do exactly the same thing now, only he'd have to tell the umpire before talking to his players. This is a good change, IMO, since the only thing the current rule prevents, that this allows, is the coach deciding to change pitchers after talking with the pitcher. I have no problem with allowing that. NFHS already allows this and it has not been a problem that I have seen.

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

“When the catcher requests time to speak to the pitcher, base runner may not abandon the vicinity of their bases without it being a charged offensive conference. Note: If either team is charged with a conference, runners are no longer restricted to the area near their base.
Comment: Needs better wording. What about other dead ball situations like injury delays, field maintenance delays, etc.

Dumb, goofy rule change, IMO. Should not be approved at all. And what about the SS requesting time to talk the the pitcher, and the catcher joins them? Goofy rule.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Bunt – A batted ball not swung at, but instead hit by the batter who holds the bat in the path of the ball and taps it slowly within the infield

Hey, look, Tony's still alive!!!

a.) Define "swung"
b.) Define "slowly" - there is something called a push bunt which is a hard bunt intended to pass the pitcher or an agreessively charging defender.
c.) "Infield" implies fair territory, which would conflict with a 3rd strike bunt foul.

No argument the wording could be better, but your questions are the type of things that are causing folks to believe there is a need to define it instead of leaving up to the umpire's judgment. We all know when we see a bunt and I don't need a rule to provide specs.

Charged Conference – It is not a charged conference if the pitcher is removed from the pitching position during a conference.

Comment: Free ticket for coach abuse. Call time, go talk to your SS/2B, change the pitcher, no charge. Next inning, change pitchers back to original.

Not really. It is no different than what they can do now, it is just a matter of when the umpire is informed. And it is a valid argument if concerning the pitcher's health.

Eliminate disqualification for an unreported substitute violation.

Comment: This change should be for JO only. This is not a bad rule for adult ball as there is more liklihood for the adult player to be deliberatley involved in the unreported violation. Thus punishes a kid who is more likely to be an innocent victim.

Regardless of the change, I think you have it backwards. FP coaches are much more likely to be intelligent enough and sly enough to try to intentionally try to slip one by the opponent or umpire

Allow an unlimited batting order in Girl’s B FP and all FP pool play.
Comment: Good change.

That depends on whether pool play is for seeding or not and the ramifications of going short-handed being addressed.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

If you want a dead on authoritative look, go black shirt, gray pants.

I would be all right with a black shirt, and the MLB light blue w/black looks pretty cool too. Just not enough guys I work baseball with have one.



You cheated and used a picture of a plate coat!

Man oh man, if I worked enough baseball in cold weather to justify the expense I would buy one in a heartbeat. To me it just looks awesome.

Or the softball organizations could just make it an option... And I said "option." Baseball guys can wear a pullover or long sleeve shirt, and softball umpires can do the same.

To summarize: I have no problems with gray pants. I just cannot see why this would be a big deal...

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Okay....since there have been way too many posts to quote properly, lets review - first about the OY ball:

As somebody (Im not looking back and trying to find it!)said, if making the OY mandatory the next couple years makes things a little simpler for both the manufacturer AND user, whats the big deal???? OYIS SAFER...plus as I put it, if you are playing on an unlighted field, you might actually get to play a little bit longer as you get towards twilight. The people complaining about this are sounding like the TENNIS people, for cripe's sake, when that sport went from white to yellow! I find personally the OY is much more visible after several innings of usage - it simply stands out through the dirt better....

Now for the pants -

At the end of the 06 season, our local group decided to go to grey for the following reasons:

Yes, a lot of our people do college ball...and a lot do HS baseball, too...so if one is traveling from either to do an ASA game, heres no change of pants involved.


We do a lot of PONY tournaments locally, and PONY told us that we HAD to wear grey for those tournaments - so a lot of our people were going to have to buy grey anyways

The only fly in this ointment is that NYS hs softball still mandates the navy slacks - but then again , NYS only changes that sort of things when it absolutely HAS to -partially because many of the umpires who live in the North Country simply do not work a lot of games due to the weather. NY only abandoned the Elbecos when it became obvious that the Elbecos were simply not going to be available anymore.

As has been said before, NOTHING looks as crappy as the navy blue pants after working around HP in the dust for a few innings. And nothing is as HOT as those navy blues on a hot day, either. If you think the players care a flying cr*p about you having sweat stains, you are worrying about the wrong thing - besides, change pants in between games!

And in a similar vein, when we started going out there in the powder blue/grey combination...NOBODY CARED!! And we actually got a few compliments along the way....Before this year, a few of our 'elite' umps had got the grey and the dark navy tops, and starting to wear them to some night games -its a VERY sharp looking combination, and more of have started to do it. It does look very nice under the lights.... The dark navy top seems to be a slightly different mesh than the powder, and is not hot at ALL!
Again, the dark navy PANTS are definitely hotter than the heather grey - which is why I think the heather grey will win out in the end....


I think SOME of you would be very happy to go back to the heavy dark blue shirts and pants they wore back in the fifities....

[SethPDX]

Thanks for the story.

Here in Oregon, OSAA says light blue and heather gray, and I don't hear complaining about buying two sets of pants. And I think that combination looks just fine on the field. I guess I just don't buy into any of the reasons given for blue pants.

Heather gray might win out, but by that time I wonder if the charcoal grays won't be creeping into softball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

No one is talking about local ball. I'm talking about Championship Play.

AFA dirt on one's pants when working a dusty field, try looking below at your shoes. Shall we change them to tan or gray? Yeah, my blue pants get dirty and between the games, I hit them with the brush before I clean my shoes.

And, BTW, NCAA is powder over navy and have even a stricter policy than ASA.

And PONY in this area wear powder over navy.

And personally, if ASA goes to gray, that's fine by me ALA they get rid of the navy.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Thanks for the story.

Here in Oregon, OSAA says light blue and heather gray, and I don't hear complaining about buying two sets of pants. And I think that combination looks just fine on the field. I guess I just don't buy into any of the reasons given for blue pants.

Heather gray might win out, but by that time I wonder if the charcoal grays won't be creeping into softball.

Just depends on whether you wanna work for Duffy or Garrett.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Thanks for the story.

Here in Oregon, OSAA says light blue and heather gray, and I don't hear complaining about buying two sets of pants. And I think that combination looks just fine on the field. I guess I just don't buy into any of the reasons given for blue pants.

Heather gray might win out, but by that time I wonder if the charcoal grays won't be creeping into softball.

I understand the charcoal gray is now OK for school baseball here in Pa, and I'm hoping that goes over to softball. I'd prefer the darker gray over the heather gray - I think. I'm one of those who sweat - a lot. On a hot day, I'm soaked no matter what color pants I'm wearing. I prefer the darker colored navy because they do not show the wet.

As far as college ball goes, one of the groups I'm in seems to prefer the gray pants. The other almost insists on the navy.

As for PONY telling folks in NY to wear gray, that's local. According to their rule book, the standard uniform is navy pants & powder shirt - or so I think I read in the 2007 book. Although, most of the PONY ball I've done has been with gray pants.

I guess some folks like to look like high school umpires.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No one is talking about local ball. I'm talking about Championship Play.

AFA dirt on one's pants when working a dusty field, try looking below at your shoes. Shall we change them to tan or gray? Yeah, my blue pants get dirty and between the games, I hit them with the brush before I clean my shoes.

And, BTW, NCAA is powder over navy and have even a stricter policy than ASA.

And PONY in this area wear powder over navy.

And personally, if ASA goes to gray, that's fine by me ALA they get rid of the navy.

MIke, I wish I cared about ASA championship play. I'm in a district in Pa where the commissioner, to the best of my knowledge, has not sent any umpire outside of his district in a long time. Biased opinion, to be sure, but I am quite sure that I'm at least as good as more than 90% of the folks who get to work a national. The ASA ball - regionals & so on - that I have traveled to were because the uic called me and asked me to come. The eastern national that I did was run by this guy, so he wanted to make sure he looked good. I've got far more opportunity in high school ball, college ball, ISC ball than I'll ever get as long as this guy is in charge of this district in Pa.
Like I said, I wish I cared about ASA championship play - but since the opportunity is not there, I won't allow myself to care.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Since you guys are exchanging spelling corrections, I thought I'd toss this in...

Unless you are talking about your laundry, the word is pantywaist.

BTW, on wade's pic of the MLB umpire... it is the point that gives him the "authoritative look", so... nevermind...

just for the record, I was never correcting his spelling and dont have a clue what you guys are talking about. I dont see where I mentioned it at all (nor did I even notice.

Joe west just plain looks cool... wasnt really fair pitting him up against some texas softball umps in blue...

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No one is talking about local ball. I'm talking about Championship Play.

AFA dirt on one's pants when working a dusty field, try looking below at your shoes. Shall we change them to tan or gray? Yeah, my blue pants get dirty and between the games, I hit them with the brush before I clean my shoes.

And, BTW, NCAA is powder over navy and have even a stricter policy than ASA.

And PONY in this area wear powder over navy.

And personally, if ASA goes to gray, that's fine by me ALA they get rid of the navy.

Cant get rid of navy.

Heather + Navy = best ASA uniform. After a day of working.. put it on for the championship game, everyone loves it. I get more compliments in that uniform than any other. Powder is oK, its become a standard.. it doesnt look the best, but I agree, obviously it is definitely a standard umpiring color.

We need to go to the darker colors.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Thanks for the story.

Here in Oregon, OSAA says light blue and heather gray, and I don't hear complaining about buying two sets of pants. And I think that combination looks just fine on the field. I guess I just don't buy into any of the reasons given for blue pants.

Heather gray might win out, but by that time I wonder if the charcoal grays won't be creeping into softball.

charcoal needs to creep in..
and ASA's OKC cowboy cut needs to run way.