Fair/foul call

[Tru_in_Blu]

OK, I'll try to be clear. I've seen many times a blooper down a line that hits beyond the base in fair territory that then kicks foul - and this is a fair ball.

I've seen many times a popup in the infield that lands originally in fair territory but then rolls foul between 1B or 3B and home untouched - this is a foul ball.

I've not seen a ball that has landed beyond the base line [defined as beyond base line from 1B to 2B or 2B to 3B] in fair territory and then rolled foul between 1B or 3B and home untouched. This would be a fair ball. And this is the call I would have made a mistake on had I not followed this discussion. And I certainly don't see THAT in every game I do.

I first wondered about this when I read the casebook play 1-42.

Hope that helps. It's helped me.

Ted

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I've not seen a ball that has landed beyond the base line [defined as beyond base line from 1B to 2B or 2B to 3B] in fair territory and then rolled foul between 1B or 3B and home untouched. Ted

That's because those types of fly balls are usually caught for outs.

[BretMan]

For what it's worth (and it's not worth much on a softball rules forum), I can confirm that in FED baseball the "imaginary line" running from first to third base is used for determining a fair or foul call. This is spelled out in their "Base Hit/Fair Ball" definition under rule 2.

I've never found such an interpretation for softball, but can imagine some confusion arising in associations that handle umpire training, registration and certification for both baseball and softball.

[Tru_in_Blu]

That's because those types of fly balls are usually caught for outs.

Or, in a lot of JO play where I see a lot of balls allowed to hit the ground, someone then picks it up before it actually rolls very far.

Ted

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

OK, I'll try to be clear. I've seen many times a blooper down a line that hits beyond the base in fair territory that then kicks foul - and this is a fair ball.

I've seen many times a popup in the infield that lands originally in fair territory but then rolls foul between 1B or 3B and home untouched - this is a foul ball.

I've not seen a ball that has landed beyond the base line [defined as beyond base line from 1B to 2B or 2B to 3B] in fair territory and then rolled foul between 1B or 3B and home untouched. This would be a fair ball. And this is the call I would have made a mistake on had I not followed this discussion. And I certainly don't see THAT in every game I do.

I first wondered about this when I read the casebook play 1-42.

Hope that helps. It's helped me.

Ted

Thank you. And you are correct, you don't see that happen often. But those are the calls where the umpire earns their money and respect of their peers.

[jmkupka]

"PLAY 1-42
B1 hits a pop fly between 1B and 2B, and the ball falls untouched to the ground about six feet beyond the base line. The ball has backspin and rolls across the foul line about ten feet from home plate, where it is first touched by F3. B1 advances to 2B on the play.
RULING: This is a fair ball because it first touches the ground beyond the bases in fair territory. B1 remains at 2B and is credited with a couble. (1-FAIR BALL-F)"


My OP had the ball land beyond the triangle of HP, 1B & 3B, but the above play does verify that there is a point beyond which the ball can land, spin back and roll foul (short of 1b) and be considered fair. Correct?

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

"PLAY 1-42
B1 hits a pop fly between 1B and 2B, and the ball falls untouched to the ground about six feet beyond the base line. The ball has backspin and rolls across the foul line about ten feet from home plate, where it is first touched by F3. B1 advances to 2B on the play.
RULING: This is a fair ball because it first touches the ground beyond the bases in fair territory. B1 remains at 2B and is credited with a couble. (1-FAIR BALL-F)"


My OP had the ball land beyond the triangle of HP, 1B & 3B, but the above play does verify that there is a point beyond which the ball can land, spin back and roll foul (short of 1b) and be considered fair. Correct?

Yes. That point is beyond the baselines, from the ruling given.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

... B1 remains at 2B and is credited with a couble. (1-FAIR BALL-F)"

What's a couble?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by SRW

What's a couble?

?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

What's a couble?

That's when each team has it's own time keeper.

You know, when there are a couble of kitchen timers hangin' on the backstop!

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That's when each team has it's own time keeper.

You know, when there are a couble of kitchen timers hangin' on the backstop!

HA!

Which happens all the time since someone usually leaves theirs hanging on there and someone else hangs theirs on there.

Pretty soon it looks like a walmart timer display.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Thank you. And you are correct, you don't see that happen often. But those are the calls where the umpire earns their money and respect of their peers.

Especially the ones who KNOW you are wrong...and the UIC tells them to shut the !$#@ up, he got it right, go read your !$#@^%$ rule book if you don't believe me...God help me I am starting to sound like Wild Bill...but it's true.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

God help me I am starting to sound like Wild Bill...but it's true.

you wish...

[Andy]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Especially the ones who KNOW you are wrong...and the UIC tells them to shut the !$#@ up, he got it right, go read your !$#@^%$ rule book if you don't believe me...God help me I am starting to sound like Wild Bill...but it's true.

Nah....you need a few more !#**@'s in there...and also some spitting sound effects!

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Andy

Nah....you need a few more !#**@'s in there...and also some spitting sound effects!

He's workin on gettin better (ptoo) on the $#@!s but as he does there is even more Red Man (ptoo) goin in the cup/can/bottle/glass.

There'd be less !$#@ if everyone would just work on a tighter buttonhook...