Respect for the Anthem

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Is being in a relaxed posture the same as a hand salute?

You guys are making too much of this. I would rather guess the umpire crew didn't really know what to do, rather than guess they made a deliberate choice to not respect the flag / anthem.

Well, I can certainly appreciate the reverence given to our country's flag. It's a symbol that represents a country that love dearly, and I would gladly give it the honor it deserves. I don't think this is much ado about nothing - it's much ado about something.

I think it'd be readily apparent to all present that someone obviously screwed up when planning the start of the games. That said, if it's way off in the distance and completely out of sight, I'd say it's up to you. If you can see the flag from where you're at, and the music is obviously close, then you should give it the respect it deserves as soon as possible.

And yes, I'm one of those guys who gets pissed at store owners who hang the flag vertically, yet don't keep the stars in the upper left-hand corner... Or when people don't take their flags down during bad weather or at night (assuming they don't have proper illumination)... Or when people wear "flag clothing" like that jackass Richard Simmons.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

...And yes, I'm one of those guys who gets pissed at store owners who hang the flag vertically, yet don't keep the stars in the upper left-hand corner... Or when people don't take their flags down during bad weather or at night (assuming they don't have proper illumination)... Or when people wear "flag clothing" like that jackass Richard Simmons.

Hey, I'm with you on this. When ASA some years back decided to put the flag on the umpire's hat, I went to our local ASA gear supplier and bought a couple of the remaining non-flag hats to try to ride through this. I didn't (and still don't) think putting a flag emblem where it is going to get soiled and sweat-stained is proper. Sadly, ASA continues to put flags on the hats, and my non-flag hats are starting to look too worn.

All I'm saying is screw ups happen. That doesn't make them members of the umpires underground terrorist movement.

[greymule]

I live near the college town of Princeton, New Jersey, where though the vast majority of people stand at attention during the national anthem or pledge of allegiance and show respect for the flag, you do see people who make a point of remaining seated and looking away from the flag, usually with a sour look on their faces. This usually happens at graduation ceremonies and the like, not ball games.

In some places (e.g., Detroit), the American flag has been removed from municipal buildings lest someone who hates America be offended.

I'm glad to say that I've never seen anyone remain seated or otherwise be disrespectful at any ball game I've been involved with.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

I live near the college town of Princeton, New Jersey, where though the vast majority of people stand at attention during the national anthem or pledge of allegiance and show respect for the flag, you do see people who make a point of remaining seated and looking away from the flag, usually with a sour look on their faces. This usually happens at graduation ceremonies and the like, not ball games.

In some places (e.g., Detroit), the American flag has been removed from municipal buildings lest someone who hates America be offended.

I'm glad to say that I've never seen anyone remain seated or otherwise be disrespectful at any ball game I've been involved with.

C'mon, they don't count. Some Princeton (college) folk are so smart, they are stupid.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

And yes, I'm one of those guys who gets pissed at store owners who hang the flag vertically, yet don't keep the stars in the upper left-hand corner...

I'm sure you mean in a window or against a wall. Otherwise, the union would be to the North or East

Or when people don't take their flags down during bad weather or at night (assuming they don't have proper illumination)... Or when people wear "flag clothing" like that jackass Richard Simmons.

This was my pet peeve when everyone thought if you didn't put a flag on you car antenna, you were unpatriotic. People do not have the knowledge or willingness to properly maintain a U.S. flag.

Which is one reason why I have a problem with it on any athletic uniform or cap, including ours (ASA).

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Hey, I'm with you on this. When ASA some years back decided to put the flag on the umpire's hat, I went to our local ASA gear supplier and bought a couple of the remaining non-flag hats to try to ride through this. I didn't (and still don't) think putting a flag emblem where it is going to get soiled and sweat-stained is proper. Sadly, ASA continues to put flags on the hats, and my non-flag hats are starting to look too worn.

All I'm saying is screw ups happen. That doesn't make them members of the umpires underground terrorist movement.

Well, I think it was a knee-jerk reaction to 9/11. It was optional in 2002, but became mandatory in 2003.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I'm sure you mean in a window or against a wall. Otherwise, the union would be to the North or East

Yes, that's what I was referring to. I was surprised to sit in the Cheers replica bar in Boston, only to find the American flag hung vertically against a wall with the stars in the upper-right.

I mean, come on. Boston! City that's RICH in American history! Hanging the flag wrong? Not cool.

I pulled our waitress aside and informed her of the mistake. She said, "wow... in all these years I've been working here, no one has ever pointed that out to me."

[outathm]

As a retired veteran in a very Military town I know that every time the Anthem is played the game is stopped.

Yes this is a pain when SB starts at 4 then Soccer at 430 then Baseball at 5, but we stop the game at the next break in action and wait for the anthem to be played. As long as they don't play the Whitney Houston version it only a takes a couple of minutes.

[shipwreck]

Three flag poles of equal height erected at the front of a business, flying an American flag, state flag and an organization. On which pole should the American flag be flying? I know the answer but the person in charge of the building disagrees with me. What are your thoughts? Dave

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Three flag poles of equal height erected at the front of a business, flying an American flag, state flag and an organization. On which pole should the American flag be flying? I know the answer but the person in charge of the building disagrees with me. What are your thoughts? Dave

The flag poles shouldn't be of equal height.

Go on up there and measure, boy!

[NYBLUE]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

And yes, I'm one of those guys who gets pissed at store owners who hang the flag vertically, yet don't keep the stars in the upper left-hand corner... Or when people don't take their flags down during bad weather or at night (assuming they don't have proper illumination)... Or when people wear "flag clothing" like that jackass Richard Simmons.

Hmmm...I guess you would not approve of what I consider to be the prized possession in my jersey collection :

[shipwreck]

Sorry boy, I don't have to measure them, I know for a fact they are equal in heighth. I realize they shouln't be the same heighth, but now that they are, there is a correct order they should be in. Dave

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Sorry boy, I don't have to measure them, I know for a fact they are equal in heighth. I realize they shouln't be the same heighth, but now that they are, there is a correct order they should be in. Dave

To be honest, I've never been sure what order they should be in. I would think the American flag would be in the center, but the other 2 flags would simply not be raised to the very top (stop 6" short, for example). The American flag must ALWAYS fly higher than any other flag.

I've asked around in the past, but never got a decent answer. I'm glad someone knows. So spill it!

[greymule]

The American flag must ALWAYS fly higher than any other flag.

Except the flag of a church or other religious organization.

[Welpe]

From the US Code:

§175. Position and manner of display

(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy....

(e) The flag of the United States of America should be at the center and at the highest point of the group when a number of flags of States or localities or pennants of societies are grouped and displayed from staffs.

Source: http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#175

From the same site:

When it is displayed from the same flagpole with another flag - of a state, community, society or Scout unit - the flag of the United States must always be at the top except that the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for Navy personnel when conducted by a Naval chaplain on a ship at sea.

...

When flown with flags of states, communities, or societies on separate flag poles which are of the same height and in a straight line, the flag of the United States is always placed in the position of honor - to its own right.
..The other flags may be smaller but none may be larger.
..No other flag ever should be placed above it.
..The flag of the United States is always the first flag raised and the last to be lowered.

Source: http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

[NCASAUmp]

I saw a LTC nearly blow a head gasket when the ROTC cadets mistakenly lowered the American flag first, then the cadre flag.