Eager Partner?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I give it even during solo games. Same thing with the wipe-off

Talking with yourself, blue?

Actually, I do that, too.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by celebur

How did you leap from "Thats terrible. You dont need a secret signal" to "you don't believe in umpire to umpire signals for communication"?

When I read that, I understood him to mean that a secret signal is not required for a rundown. And I have to agree; in the middle of the action, a signal like touching your ear seems far too easy to miss. A simple verbal response would work better, imo.

But when there is no action, the standard umpire-to-umpire signals are certainly appropriate. That's completely different from what was being discussed.

You should read my post, and quote the entire thing, instead of just the part that you deem necessary. If you had, you would notice I was asking a question, to make a point. Yes. As I have stated, many of these signals go unnoticed. However, we still continue to use them. I don't believe I have ever stated whether or not I agree with this particular signal at all. What I did state is, it is the recommended signal for NCAA, and being such, I will use it when I call their games.

In the NCAA they advise using this signal. Absolutely nothing secret about it. It is in print in the CCA Umpire's Manual. Same as the other umpire to umpire communication signals. So, this is exactly what is being discussed. Not, as you stated (and that can be seen by the fact that I quoted you completely above) something "completely different."

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I give it even during solo games. Same thing with the wipe-off

As do I.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I give it even during solo games. Same thing with the wipe-off

I'm surprised I didn't catch this the first time.

What wipe-off, Mike? I can't find this anywhere in the book.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I give it even during solo games. Same thing with the wipe-off

Especially if I can see an umpire on an adjoining field to signal.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

So, am I to understand that now you don't believe in umpire to umpire signals for communication?

No, you should understand I dont believe in dumb signals when verbal communication works just fine or better. Ive worked with many of you college guys and you do this collar thing for good call and all this lame stuff. Its just dumb. IFR or "gimme the count" and some other stuff are fine.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

No, you should understand I dont believe in dumb signals when verbal communication works just fine or better. Ive worked with many of you college guys and you do this collar thing for good call and all this lame stuff. Its just dumb. IFR or "gimme the count" and some other stuff are fine.

What the hell is the "collar thing?" Apparently, not an approved signal, as I have never seen or heard of it. I still haven't weighed in with my opinion on the response signal for someone coming up to cover the other end of the play, just stated that it is in fact a legitimate, approved signal in the NCAA. Therefore, it is no different than any other approved umpire to umpire signal in any other code.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

No, you should understand I dont believe in dumb signals when verbal communication works just fine or better. Ive worked with many of you college guys and you do this collar thing for good call and all this lame stuff. Its just dumb. IFR or "gimme the count" and some other stuff are fine.

And playing devil's advocate here, why not just yell at your partner, "the infield fly rule is on," or "what do you have for a count," (which I believe is still the recommended ASA way) instead of using signals? Don't you think that when these signals came into being, some umpire, somewhere, was saying "I am not going to use these signals, they are just dumb?"

Obviously, though, enough umpires accepted the change and applied them, and they have now become the accepted norm.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

And playing devil's advocate here, why not just yell at your partner, "the infield fly rule is on," or "what do you have for a count," (which I believe is still the recommended ASA way) instead of using signals? Don't you think that when these signals came into being, some umpire, somewhere, was saying "I am not going to use these signals, they are just dumb?"

Obviously, though, enough umpires accepted the change and applied them, and they have now become the accepted norm.

Speaking ASA

Asking for the count if eye contact doesn't work, but the IFR is still a right hand to the chest.

However, I do not understand why you would need to compliment your partner on a "good call". What does it mean if you forget to execute the "collar thing"? Does that mean you disagree with the call?

[DaveASA/FED]

I think the only thing I could add is to tell your partner a couple more times that your there, we don't want to turn that into a conversation on the diamond during a rundown....but maybe esculate the verbal

1) I got 3 (as you said)
2) 3rd is my call
3) I'm at 3 take second

I dont' think I would go to a forth just do what you did after that, and I would have a conversation after the first incident to remind your partner that is your call and you were there, a nice reminder that he/she is working with an umpire that doesn't have a chain tied to home plate. That you are going to be where you should be per the manual. Also to see if he had a hard time hearing you call him off or what. A nice, brief conversation but still let him know you were there and you will be there baring any SNAFU's that might occur.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

No, you should understand I dont believe in dumb signals when verbal communication works just fine or better. Ive worked with many of you college guys and you do this collar thing for good call and all this lame stuff. Its just dumb. IFR or "gimme the count" and some other stuff are fine.

So just to go down the slippery slope here if some signals are dumb but others are fine... do you pick and choose which rules to apply based on what you think is dumb ... we enforce all the rules for a reason those signals are all used for a reason

[LMan]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

So just to go down the slippery slope here if some signals are dumb but others are fine... do you pick and choose which rules to apply based on what you think is dumb ... we enforce all the rules for a reason those signals are all used for a reason

That slope is so slippery, it doesn't exist.

Rules =/= signals..its apples and oranges. Many different umpires can legitimately differ/express preferences over signals, but ignoring rules is an entirely separate matter.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I give it even during solo games. Same thing with the wipe-off

I also signal IFR when solo, but for 1 reason only. I want to be consistent every game and certain "routines" help me recall the sich during actual plays. The point is, if it helps me, then why not.....

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by LMan

That slope is so slippery, it doesn't exist.

Rules =/= signals..its apples and oranges. Many different umpires can legitimately differ/express preferences over signals, but ignoring rules is an entirely separate matter.

True but how many times have you heard this, " I'm not gonna call that this is a (insert important game here)" Unfourtunately I have heard that WAY to much as of late. Just to add to that ... a majority of those umpire who wouldnt make a "tough call" or enforce a rule because of whatever game it is didn't signal or use the right signals or even have a pre-game to discuss what they would want to use

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

So just to go down the slippery slope here if some signals are dumb but others are fine... do you pick and choose which rules to apply based on what you think is dumb ... we enforce all the rules for a reason those signals are all used for a reason

Well.. two diff animals, you guys have E. A.'s books with a billion signals in it. There actually are not very many signals for use in ASA.