Tenn Vols vs USA HP Umpire

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by socalumps

I don't believe NCAA Collegiate Softball equates ....10 and under...mens slow pitch...seniors softball...double bases...masters...co-ed softball...with their "starting points" or their "basics."

Maybe not but why not want to work the game where the level of play is consistantly the highest(okay maybe not slowpitch). In all actuality that is NCAA. The things like shoes belt etc are all things that should look as unifor as possible. I can tell you that every pair of shoes I have bought for softball umpiring have etheir been all black or I blacked them out in whatever way I could find. For example those nice New balance with the great white N on the side of those new balances comes right off with a little rubbing alcohol and a qtip then you can polish over it and BAM! all black shoes. The bottom line is... you should always dress for the job you want. (p.s. same thing goes for mechanics!!!)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by socalumps

I don't believe NCAA Collegiate Softball equates ....10 and under...mens slow pitch...seniors softball...double bases...masters...co-ed softball...with their "starting points" or their "basics."

Well, to start, the NCAA is still in the process of getting their feet wet with NCAA softball umpires and are still somewhat reliant upon local associations to provide registration and majority of training. Yes, I know all NCAA sports are pretty much like that. Comparatively, the NCAA softball umpire system is still in the adolescent stages. The organization at the top has been getting better each year, but it wasn't that long ago that the "NCAA Softball Umpire" did not exist.

Just where to you think the umpires working college ball started? Do you think they woke up one morning and said, "Damn, I think today is the day I become a NCAA softball umpire!"

A softball umpire works softball games. Just because someone doesn't work a particular level doesn't make them any less an umpire. There are many an umpire career stymied by job, family and real life.

Anyone who believes they are above working any level of play is not someone I would want on the field. I am privileged to know an umpire who has works NCAA, NPF, HS, any level of JO, any level of men's or women's FP or SP and not only is that all in the same season, quite often a mixture of these in the same week. And works every game with the same enthusiasm.

This is an ISF certified and USA/ASA Elite umpire who has been selected for multiple 18U Gold, Women's FP, all levels JO Championships, multiple NCAA Regionals and Championships and just worked the plate of one of the Bound-4-Beijing games.

To me, THAT is the epitome of a true softball umpire and someone I want to see on the field not matter what game is being played.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Anyone who believes they are above working any level of play is not someone I would want on the field. I am privileged to know an umpire who has works NCAA, NPF, HS, any level of JO, any level of men's or women's FP or SP and not only is that all in the same season, quite often a mixture of these in the same week. And works every game with the same enthusiasm.

This is an ISF certified and USA/ASA Elite umpire who has been selected for multiple 18U Gold, Women's FP, all levels JO Championships, multiple NCAA Regionals and Championships and just worked the plate of one of the Bound-4-Beijing games.

To me, THAT is the epitome of a true softball umpire and someone I want to see on the field not matter what game is being played.

That is true and I know I did not mean to come off as NCAA being the END ALL to be all of softball officiating. I know a few ISF umpires and I know Umpires who have worked literally every level of Mens fast at the national level and all of them would say the same thing you dress and perform for the job you want. Now as for mechanics you do have to work the mechanics set of whatever you are working that day wether its PONY,ASA, NFHS, or whatever but working them to the best of your ability and working them correctly (even with communication and diviation) is an asset to whoever as an umpire. This is the same with dress. Attire should be uniform, it can create an unspoken sense of crewness or even a sense of knowing what your doing. I know that I have seen a baseball player (i know I know its the softball forum but just hear me out) check out the umpires shoes and uniform and report to the coach just so the coach has an edge.... if the umpires shoes arent shined he/she isnt prepared a shirt to small:this umpire isnt ready to work this game Dirty pants: This umpire doesnt care.
we cant sacrifice looking good in uniform so how can we sacrifice a sense of uniformity amoung our mechanics.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

.............. how can we sacrifice a sense of uniformity amoung our mechanics.

Certain mechanics do need to be uniform and certain mechanics do not. Certain mechanics can be "personality" Others can be preference which allow the umpire to perform at his best because of genetics, god or McDonalds. You may have a preference because it looks good. I personnally think the umpire at this Tenn game was the BEST looking umpire mechanics wise I've seen working NCAA ball. He beat em all. It was refreshing to see good mechanics behind the plate of a softball game.

The misnomer sold to the softball masses is that if a PU used different stances than the allocated stance or a different strike 1&2 call... chaos would reign and and no one would know what is going on.

"Oh goodness," the softball umpire cries "how could I ever work with a partner from anywhere if he used a different stance!" Softball umpires, even in this thread, contend EVERYTHING must be uniform or they may not know what is going on. They need that uniformity to be able to work with anyone!

Are you kidding me?

I'm certainly not advocating people running around doing a double fist pump or inventing their own dead ball calls or what not.. but people would be just fine if certain areas were relaxed.

If an umpire, say, worked a Gerry Davis stance or used the dreaded "point" strike, and you as BU "lost" it and couldnt tell what is going on.. well then thats sad.

If I were president, we would have a chicken in every pot, a car in every garage..

Umpires could use any reasonable strike call, and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they did the robotics perfectly.

Umpires could use any reasonable stance and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they the specified stance.

Umpires, base or plate, could use any reasonable out call, and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they did the robotics perfectly.

Irishmike's contention that umpires can do so now is absurd. At least not in any place I've ever worked... maybe in Delaware they can.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Certain mechanics do need to be uniform and certain mechanics do not. Certain mechanics can be "personality" Others can be preference which allow the umpire to perform at his best because of genetics, god or McDonalds. You may have a preference because it looks good. I personnally think the umpire at this Tenn game was the BEST looking umpire mechanics wise I've seen working NCAA ball. He beat em all. It was refreshing to see good mechanics behind the plate of a softball game.

The misnomer sold to the softball masses is that if a PU used different stances than the allocated stance or a different strike 1&2 call... chaos would reign and and no one would know what is going on.

"Oh goodness," the softball umpire cries "how could I ever work with a partner from anywhere if he used a different stance!" Softball umpires, even in this thread, contend EVERYTHING must be uniform or they may not know what is going on. They need that uniformity to be able to work with anyone!

Are you kidding me?

I'm certainly not advocating people running around doing a double fist pump or inventing their own dead ball calls or what not.. but people would be just fine if certain areas were relaxed.

If an umpire, say, worked a Gerry Davis stance or used the dreaded "point" strike, and you as BU "lost" it and couldnt tell what is going on.. well then thats sad.

If I were president, we would have a chicken in every pot, a car in every garage..

Umpires could use any reasonable strike call, and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they did the robotics perfectly.

Umpires could use any reasonable stance and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they the specified stance.

Umpires, base or plate, could use any reasonable out call, and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they did the robotics perfectly.

Irishmike's contention that umpires can do so now is absurd. At least not in any place I've ever worked... maybe in Delaware they can.

That guy behind the plate had horrible timing. As a softball umpire we are supposed to see the pitch and call it in the set posistion "pop" up and give it the hammer (how ever you do the hammer is up to you as long as people can see it and know what it is.) That guy also looked like a bum. His shirt was looking like he got it four sizes too big and he looked like he was ready to walk down into downtown atlanta or some other urban area.... not ready to umpire a softball game. The height of his zone was OK at best and we cant really tell the width because of the camera being offset in Centerfield. The bottom line is there are times to let your personality out in softball... like the sell out and the sell safe ... sure there are guides in the manual on how to do one but they are just GUIDES an overhand is an overhand as long as its clear and everyone knows what you have. I said nothing about his stance. He looked heal toe and he wasnt to hunched over... so that seems ok to me as long as he was close enough to the catcher and remained in the slot (which I think he pretty much did). What about the guy in the world series whose out looked like a windshield wiper..... thats his personality.... he worked the WCWS and World cup if im not mistaken.

[3afan]

the guy was selected for the game so he is obviously a good, respected official .....

some of he points raised are valid, no doubt - but lighten up a bit .... just cause he's a little "different"

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by 3afan

the guy was selected for the game so he is obviously a good, respected official .....

some of he points raised are valid, no doubt - but lighten up a bit .... just cause he's a little "different"

Haha ok maybe I was a little uptight about it. But just as a reminder.. you dont always have to be good to be selected to the games that are the dreams of certain officials.. politics plays a HUGE role in that selection.

I know that he is different and I respect personality. However we have protocol as softball umpires and that umpire was not following the protocol. I dont know of any evaluator that would approve of the timing he was using from a softball stand point.

[3afan]

politics - ain't that the truth!

unfortunately...

[SRW]

Long winded, self-proclaimed know-it-all's drive me nuts.

... I'm just sayin'...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Certain mechanics do need to be uniform and certain mechanics do not. Certain mechanics can be "personality" Others can be preference which allow the umpire to perform at his best because of genetics, god or McDonalds. You may have a preference because it looks good. I personnally think the umpire at this Tenn game was the BEST looking umpire mechanics wise I've seen working NCAA ball. He beat em all. It was refreshing to see good mechanics behind the plate of a softball game.

Well, to each their own. I don't think it was bad, but certainly not the best, IMO.

The misnomer sold to the softball masses is that if a PU used different stances than the allocated stance or a different strike 1&2 call... chaos would reign and and no one would know what is going on.

"Oh goodness," the softball umpire cries "how could I ever work with a partner from anywhere if he used a different stance!" Softball umpires, even in this thread, contend EVERYTHING must be uniform or they may not know what is going on. They need that uniformity to be able to work with anyone!

Are you kidding me?

WTF are you talking about? Are you making up your own story so you can argue against it?

I'm certainly not advocating people running around doing a double fist pump or inventing their own dead ball calls or what not.. but people would be just fine if certain areas were relaxed.

If an umpire, say, worked a Gerry Davis stance or used the dreaded "point" strike, and you as BU "lost" it and couldnt tell what is going on.. well then thats sad.

I wouldn't use a point, nor lose it if someone else did. But I would have a problem with it because the signals are supposed to be for those remote from the action and be some place where all can see. You cannot see a "point" from everywhere. Do you give a count in front of your chest or above your shoulders where it can be seen by all?

If I were president, we would have a chicken in every pot, a car in every garage..

Umpires could use any reasonable strike call, and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they did the robotics perfectly.

Umpires could use any reasonable stance and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they the specified stance.

Umpires, base or plate, could use any reasonable out call, and would be evaluated on performance, not whether they did the robotics perfectly.

Irishmike's contention that umpires can do so now is absurd. At least not in any place I've ever worked... maybe in Delaware they can.

I've worked nationals with an umpire would stand behind the opposing batter's box and bend over, almost backwards (SP), to see the pitch so he would not interfere with the catchers ability to retreive the ball and have a clean shot at throwing out a runner. Nothing was ever said to him about his mechanic. I worked another where the umpire's call for the first strike of the game was, "WHOOPS, THERE IT IS!" Nothing said to umpire. I have an umpire with nationals under his belt who goes to the hammer, then extends his arm straight up. Never been gigged for it by myself or any of his UICs at NC. I could go on for hours about this, but that would just be a waste of time and space.

All I ask of an umpire is that the strike/out signal be in the form of a hammer high enough for the people to see it. I prefer it to be not directly in front of the umpire, but I'm not going to "lose" it if it is.

I don't know what you are seeing around ASA, but it certainly isn't what I have over the past 10 years of nationals and world cups I've worked.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You watched that entire game and didn't notice the PU's great mechanics?

I didn't say "entire". As it was, a few 1/2 innings. But observed or not was not my point, just that the PU was not the most important not the only one there. I'd much rather focus on Mendoza'a swing or Abbott's pitching than any umpire.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

.......... I'd much rather focus on Mendoza'a swing or Abbott's pitching than any umpire.

Really?

How weird is that? What the hell for?

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by SRW

Long winded, self-proclaimed know-it-all's drive me nuts.

... I'm just sayin'...

Just because I own a manual ... and know how to read.... and prepare yourself for this one ... READ THE MANUAL!!! does not mean I am a "know it all." You should try reading a manual someday ... maybe then you could be a "know it all." Maybe I am long winded.... but guess what I'm done now

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

Just because I own a manual ... and know how to read.... and prepare yourself for this one ... READ THE MANUAL!!! does not mean I am a "know it all." You should try reading a manual someday ... maybe then you could be a "know it all." Maybe I am long winded.... but guess what I'm done now

See what I mean about citations? There was nothing which indicated that comment was directed toward you. Based on your previous statements, anyone should have known it was directed toward the OP.

I really don't know to whom SRW was referring, could have been me and that's okay.

Then again, since you responded in such a manner, you must have believed it was you. Must be that guilty conscience thing.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

See what I mean about citations? There was nothing which indicated that comment was directed toward you. Based on your previous statements, anyone should have known it was directed toward the OP.

I really don't know to whom SRW was referring, could have been me and that's okay.

Then again, since you responded in such a manner, you must have believed it was you. Must be that guilty conscience thing.

hahah yeah well SRW and I got in another arguement about something sometime and there were comments about manuals thrown around. so I assumed ... but you knwo what they say about that