LBR question

[GaryBarrentine]

14U ASA Rec. Ball, I am watching, not officiating, this game.

R1 on 1st, Batter hits gound to F9, F9 throws to F4 and F4 to F1 in circle. BR to 1st. R1 has rounded third and takes up a position about 3 steps down line, stop and puts hands on knees(ball in circle, F1 not looking at runner). Out of habit, I start counting, 1001, 1002, 1003, nothing from on field staff. DC yells for picture to look at R1, R1 takes a step toward home, F1 spins whole body to face runner and brings throwing hand with ball out of glove and starts to move to a throwing position, but stops with hand and ball still below waist. R1 stops and returns to third. R1 is called out on LBR violation.

Does turning(quick spin) the whole body to face a runner constitute making a play when LBR is in effect?

How much or little throwing arm(with ball in hand) movement constitutes making a play when LBR is in effect?

Thanks

GaryB

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

14U ASA Rec. Ball, I am watching, not officiating, this game.

R1 on 1st, Batter hits gound to F9, F9 throws to F4 and F4 to F1 in circle. BR to 1st. R1 has rounded third and takes up a position about 3 steps down line, stop and puts hands on knees(ball in circle, F1 not looking at runner). Out of habit, I start counting, 1001, 1002, 1003, nothing from on field staff. DC yells for picture to look at R1, R1 takes a step toward home, F1 spins whole body to face runner and brings throwing hand with ball out of glove and starts to move to a throwing position, but stops with hand and ball still below waist. R1 stops and returns to third. R1 is called out on LBR violation.

Does turning(quick spin) the whole body to face a runner constitute making a play when LBR is in effect?

How much or little throwing arm(with ball in hand) movement constitutes making a play when LBR is in effect?

Thanks

GaryB

Pretty much both of those are umpire judgement. Can they constitute "making a play" on the runner? Sure. Do they have to equal "making a play" on the runner? No.

However, if you counted as far as you say you did before any of this other stuff happened, I would have probably already rung the runner up on the LBR.

[charliej47]

Unless the pitcher is making some type of gesture, I say 1001 and if they have not started moving, I ring them up.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

However, if you counted as far as you say you did before any of this other stuff happened, I would have probably already rung the runner up on the LBR.

I'm in agreement with Scott here.

My usual procedure is to see the runner stopped off of the base, look at the pitcher to see if she is "making a play", if not, look back at the runner. If the runner is still not moving, I've got me an out.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

...DC yells for picture to look at R1,...

So did the photographer get his shot?

[AtlUmpSteve]

I also agree that the description of the play was already a violation. I just want to add more commentary on the question posed.

Gary, if a runner might react to any action of the pitcher, that has to be considered an attempt to make a play. Turning may be; a quick jump and spin, probably. Did it get a reaction? Was it intended to get a reaction? Would a "reasonable" person think it could get a reaction? That is an attempt to make a play.

If the pitcher walks in the circle, or moves her arms in no particularly threatening manner, then you must conclude it wasn't an attempt at a play. And the LBR requires the runner to act, not the pitcher.

[Dakota]

In the OP, it seems to me this runner was out a couple of times before F1 did anything. Already mentioned is the count. However, by the description, the runner was stopped, reacted to the coach (not the picture ), took a step and stopped again before F1 even made the move toward R1. That second stop - she's out (if she wasn't already).