Catcher Standing on Plate.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by scroobs

ASA

RS #1,C,1

That is talking about a dead ball appeal. WMB's example was a live ball appeal.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

This issue intrigues me as it raises the question: "Are you going to call the book literally? Or by the spirit of the law?"

R1 coming home, F2 blocks the plate, R1 slides wide, PU's arm out and says "obstruction," R1 misses plate, F2 receives ball.

Sit 1: F2 dives and tags R1; PU calls dead ball, awards R1 home on obstruction.

Sit 2: F2 looks at PU and says, "she missed the plate," then tags R1. PU honors the appeal (which is an exception to the obstruction rules), and calls R1 out.

Can anyone find a rule that supports allowing a runner free access to return to touch a base missed due to obstruction, before honoring a missed base appeal?


WMB

In sit 2, if R1 is heading toward the dugout, I'd honor the appeal. If R1 is attempting to get back to the plate, this is still part of the effect of the obstruction, and I would not honor the live ball appeal. I don't have sound rules basis for that last one, but it seems right.

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

If R1 is attempting to get back to the plate, this is still part of the effect of the obstruction, and I would not honor the live ball appeal. I don't have sound rules basis for that last one, but it seems right.

WMB: This issue intrigues me as it raises the question: "Are you going to call the book literally? Or by the spirit of the law?"

And your answer is "spirit of the law." That is where I was leaning, but I was looking for someone to support a literal interpretation.

WMB

[scroobs]

Originally Posted by Dakota

That is talking about a dead ball appeal. WMB's example was a live ball appeal.

If DDB obstruction was called and the runner missed the plate, i would only call her out on appeal if (in my judgement) she had been given an opportunity to complete her base running responsibilities. Am i missing something here?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

That is talking about a dead ball appeal. WMB's example was a live ball appeal.

It is not a live ball appeal if it is on an obstructed runner which has been tagged out.

If the missed base is a direct result of the OBS (which it is in the scenario), I'm not going to reward the defense.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

ASA 14U Rec Ball.

R1 on 1st, Batter lays down a bunt.

F5 fields and badly over throws F4 in an attempt to force R1 at 2nd, ball gets past F8 and rolls a very long way, R1 scores. As BR rounds 3rd, F2 move to and stands on plate waiting for throw from F6 who is behind 2nd and has taken a cut off throw from F8. BR has to move around F2(who does not have the ball) to attempt to touch the plate. After passing the plate, BR trots into the Dugout(DBT) and is called out by PU for not touching the plate. When asked if not touching a base is an appeal play, PU stated that F2(who never received the ball, ball was thrown by F6 to F1) stated that the runner did not touched the plate.

Question 1, is not touching touching a base an appeal play?
Question 2, if so, can a fielder without the ball appeal a missed base?
Question 3, if no appeal was made, is the runner out if he/she does not touch the plate and enter DBT?
Question 4, Could obstruction be considered, as F2 did not have the ball and run had to move around F2
to attempt to touch the plate?

Thanks
GaryB

I got an out on this one as described.

I might have OBS, in which case I would have signaled OBS.

In either case, if that runner trots off to the dugout, she is out.

I almost cant imagine a scenario where an appeal for missing a base would not be honored no matter the level of OBS.

Why?

Once the the play is over and the runner is awarded home, that is what she must do. That is her whole purpose of existence. If she trots off to the dugout.. phew! I got an out!

What could possibly preclude that?

Even if that catcher tackled her and held her down until the right fielder with the ball ran up and tagged her, I'm going to call dead ball and award her home.

If she cant touch home.. thats not my problem.

[youngump]

So a few disjoint thoughts here.

1. Not that I'd ever want to insist on this, but if you're arguing that you have to call this a particular way because of the book. Per the poorly edited book, you cannot call a runner out for entering deadball territory between obstructed bases. There are only a small number of exceptions and they are all listed out.

2. We seem to have two sitch'es here. There seems to be pretty good agreement that in some form if a runner is obstructed 3 feet from home and doesn't go back to get the bag she's out, but not much agreement as to form on how to call that.
So where in the rulebook does it say not to do it this way:
1. Signal obstruction.
2. When the runner gives up and enters deadball territory, call her out. She's now an obstructed runner put out. So under 8-5-b-2, we call time, award runners bases, in her case that's home.
3. Give her "ample time" to her to go out and touch it.
4. Then honor the appeal.


3. Now, where there seems to be strong disagreement is this situation. (I'm making it as borderline as I can, if you think this is okay where would you draw the line.) So here's my dreamland sitch:
Tie game with runner on third in bottom of 7th inning.
Sharply hit ball to the right fielder playing in and slow runner.
F2 sets up near the plate about a step up the third base line.
As the runner runs over the plate the catcher bumps her causing her foot to miss the base hitting the black that is not actually part of the plate.
F2 then catches the ball and swipes back toward the runner who has just passed the plate.
PU then signals safe while runner stops at first.
Home team swarms the field and surrounds the safe runner at home plate.

[At this point, prior to this thread if I'm PU the game is over because I don't want trouble where none is needed. But it seems some of you think this should end like this:]
PU calls dead ball. Announces obstruction and awards home.
PU waits around for ample time trying to watch the swarm the whole time to see if the awarded runner ever gets home.
F2 then says blue she missed the plate.
PU gives his best sell out and prepares to eject at least the head coach from the home team plus maybe a few others.

Thoughts?

--Ben
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MEDICAL CANNABIS SEEDS

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by youngump

So a few disjoint thoughts here.

1. Not that I'd ever want to insist on this, but if you're arguing that you have to call this a particular way because of the book. Per the poorly edited book, you cannot call a runner out for entering deadball territory between obstructed bases. There are only a small number of exceptions and they are all listed out.

This would be one of them there listed out situations...

2. We seem to have two sitch'es here. There seems to be pretty good agreement that in some form if a runner is obstructed 3 feet from home and doesn't go back to get the bag she's out, but not much agreement as to form on how to call that.
So where in the rulebook does it say not to do it this way:
1. Signal obstruction.
2. When the runner gives up and enters deadball territory, call her out. She's now an obstructed runner put out. So under 8-5-b-2, we call time, award runners bases, in her case that's home.
3. Give her "ample time" to her to go out and touch it.
4. Then honor the appeal.

I dont understand why an obstructed runner is giving up on her responsibilities in these cases?

She is out now if properly appealed.

OBS no longer applies.

3. Now, where there seems to be strong disagreement is this situation. (I'm making it as borderline as I can, if you think this is okay where would you draw the line.) So here's my dreamland sitch:
Tie game with runner on third in bottom of 7th inning.
Sharply hit ball to the right fielder playing in and slow runner.
F2 sets up near the plate about a step up the third base line.
As the runner runs over the plate the catcher bumps her causing her foot to miss the base hitting the black that is not actually part of the plate.
F2 then catches the ball and swipes back toward the runner who has just passed the plate.
PU then signals safe while runner stops at first.
Home team swarms the field and surrounds the safe runner at home plate.

[At this point, prior to this thread if I'm PU the game is over because I don't want trouble where none is needed. But it seems some of you think this should end like this:]
PU calls dead ball. Announces obstruction and awards home.
PU waits around for ample time trying to watch the swarm the whole time to see if the awarded runner ever gets home.
F2 then says blue she missed the plate.
PU gives his best sell out and prepares to eject at least the head coach from the home team plus maybe a few others.

Thoughts?

--Ben

If I award a runner a base and they dont touch the awarded base, and they enter dead ball territory

They are out.

There is no gray area here...

This one is on the coach.

[youngump]

Wade, in the situation in two I'm asking about mechanics. In the situation in three she never even leaves the field. She's standing next to the plate and the coach is not responsible for not knowing that his runner missed the plate by a half inch.
Oh and in one, no it's not. I double checked before making the post.
________
MatureBliss4U