Catcher Standing on Plate.

[GaryBarrentine]

ASA 14U Rec Ball.

R1 on 1st, Batter lays down a bunt.

F5 fields and badly over throws F4 in an attempt to force R1 at 2nd, ball gets past F8 and rolls a very long way, R1 scores. As BR rounds 3rd, F2 move to and stands on plate waiting for throw from F6 who is behind 2nd and has taken a cut off throw from F8. BR has to move around F2(who does not have the ball) to attempt to touch the plate. After passing the plate, BR trots into the Dugout(DBT) and is called out by PU for not touching the plate. When asked if not touching a base is an appeal play, PU stated that F2(who never received the ball, ball was thrown by F6 to F1) stated that the runner did not touched the plate.

Question 1, is not touching touching a base an appeal play?
Question 2, if so, can a fielder without the ball appeal a missed base?
Question 3, if no appeal was made, is the runner out if he/she does not touch the plate and enter DBT?
Question 4, Could obstruction be considered, as F2 did not have the ball and run had to move around F2
to attempt to touch the plate?

Thanks
GaryB

[MNBlue]

I'll give it a try.

Q1. Yes. ASA 8.7.1
Q2. Yes. During a dead ball appeal.
Q3. No. Assuming, of couse, that the runner physically passed home plate and didn't just go to DBT while being between 3rd and home. Unless, of course, your umpire is making up rules, then almost anything goes.

[youngump]

So in addition to the questions, from the OP it looks like we should have seen an obstruction call here. But I'm not sure I'm comfortable with how this one works. An obstructed runner still needs to touch the base and has no protection for a missed base? So supposing the runner doesn't get the base because of obstruction and leaves the field thinking they did get it, they enjoy no protection from being appealed out in this situation?
Even though the runner may have thought they got the very small piece of home that the catcher wasn't obstructing?
--Ben.
________
Live Sex Webshows

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by youngump

So supposing the runner doesn't get the base because of obstruction and leaves the field thinking they did get it, they enjoy no protection from being appealed out in this situation?

At 14U, this would be a great learning opportunity. Always touch the bases.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by youngump

So in addition to the questions, from the OP it looks like we should have seen an obstruction call here. But I'm not sure I'm comfortable with how this one works. An obstructed runner still needs to touch the base and has no protection for a missed base? So supposing the runner doesn't get the base because of obstruction and leaves the field thinking they did get it, they enjoy no protection from being appealed out in this situation?
Even though the runner may have thought they got the very small piece of home that the catcher wasn't obstructing?
--Ben.

Correct. It is no different from an unobstructed runner thinking they got the edge of the plate, but missed it. ASA 8-5-B says, in part,

Obstructed runners are required to touch all bases in proper order.

[greymule]

Yes, obstructed runners have to touch the bases. But I thought that if the OBS caused the runner to miss the base, it was a different story. The OP seems to describe such a case.

[bkbjones]

Was obstruction called? by that, I mean did you have a delayed dead ball followed by a dead ball, to give the obstructed runner the opportunity to touch the base she missed due to the obstruction. Failing that, you have now given full and unfair advantage to the defense -- in my opinion.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by greymule

Yes, obstructed runners have to touch the bases. But I thought that if the OBS caused the runner to miss the base, it was a different story. The OP seems to describe such a case.

I think gm is saying the runner would have reached home (ITUJ) if not obstructed.
Isn't this the same as a runner tagged between the point of OBS and the next base or returning to the previous base because of being OBS and then being awarded the attempted base?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by greymule

Yes, obstructed runners have to touch the bases. But I thought that if the OBS caused the runner to miss the base, it was a different story. The OP seems to describe such a case.

Even if the OBS caused the runner to miss the base, you're still going to award the runner the base they would have gotten had there been no OBS. That being said, runners should still complete their baserunning responsibilities. If this means she has to go back 30 feet, touch the missed base, and then continue on, then so be it.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

Question 4, Could obstruction be considered, as F2 did not have the ball and run had to move around F2 to attempt to touch the plate?

You overlooked one, Mark.

The answer is, yes, you did describe obstruction. However, even with obstruction, the runner must touch the plate. IOW, obstruction would not negate the appeal. The runner would still be out on appeal.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

You overlooked one, Mark.

4 wasn't there when I replied. Look at the time stamps.

[NCASAUmp]

ASA 14U Rec Ball.

Question 1: Yes.
Question 2: If the ball is dead, yes, an INfielder can make the appeal. Outfielders may not do so. If you hear an outfielder calling out an appeal, pretend you don't hear him/her, but keep your ears peeled for an infielder repeating the "appeal."
Question 3: No.
Question 4: Only in the sense that you give the runner enough time to allow her to complete their baserunning responsibilities. Once she goes into the dugout, or if a runner behind her scores (if we're in a situation where there's another runner), she can't return to touch HP. At that point, she may be properly appealed by the defense.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Question 4: Only in the sense that you give the runner enough time to allow her to complete their baserunning responsibilities. Once she goes into the dugout, or if a runner behind her scores (if we're in a situation where there's another runner), she can't return to touch HP. At that point, she may be properly appealed by the defense.

The defense could make a live ball appeal at any time. In the OP, the BR entered the dugout. There were no more runners on base, and the BR could no longer return to touch. The dead ball verbal appeal could then be honored.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

ASA 14U Rec Ball.

R1 on 1st, Batter lays down a bunt.

F5 fields and badly over throws F4 in an attempt to force R1 at 2nd, ball gets past F8 and rolls a very long way, R1 scores. As BR rounds 3rd, F2 move to and stands on plate waiting for throw from F6 who is behind 2nd and has taken a cut off throw from F8. BR has to move around F2(who does not have the ball) to attempt to touch the plate. After passing the plate, BR trots into the Dugout(DBT) and is called out by PU for not touching the plate. When asked if not touching a base is an appeal play, PU stated that F2(who never received the ball, ball was thrown by F6 to F1) stated that the runner did not touched the plate.

Question 1, is not touching touching a base an appeal play?
Question 2, if so, can a fielder without the ball appeal a missed base?
Question 3, if no appeal was made, is the runner out if he/she does not touch the plate and enter DBT?
Question 4, Could obstruction be considered, as F2 did not have the ball and run had to move around F2
to attempt to touch the plate?

Thanks
GaryB

I got an out on this one as described.

I might have OBS, in which case I would have signaled OBS.

In either case, if that runner trots off to the dugout, she is out.

I almost cant imagine a scenario where an appeal for missing a base would not be honored no matter the level of OBS.

Why?

Once the the play is over and the runner is awarded home, that is what she must do. That is her whole purpose of existence. If she trots off to the dugout.. phew! I got an out!

What could possibly preclude that?

Even if that catcher tackled her and held her down until the right fielder with the ball ran up and tagged her, I'm going to call dead ball and award her home.

If she cant touch home.. thats not my problem.

[youngump]

So a few disjoint thoughts here.

1. Not that I'd ever want to insist on this, but if you're arguing that you have to call this a particular way because of the book. Per the poorly edited book, you cannot call a runner out for entering deadball territory between obstructed bases. There are only a small number of exceptions and they are all listed out.

2. We seem to have two sitch'es here. There seems to be pretty good agreement that in some form if a runner is obstructed 3 feet from home and doesn't go back to get the bag she's out, but not much agreement as to form on how to call that.
So where in the rulebook does it say not to do it this way:
1. Signal obstruction.
2. When the runner gives up and enters deadball territory, call her out. She's now an obstructed runner put out. So under 8-5-b-2, we call time, award runners bases, in her case that's home.
3. Give her "ample time" to her to go out and touch it.
4. Then honor the appeal.


3. Now, where there seems to be strong disagreement is this situation. (I'm making it as borderline as I can, if you think this is okay where would you draw the line.) So here's my dreamland sitch:
Tie game with runner on third in bottom of 7th inning.
Sharply hit ball to the right fielder playing in and slow runner.
F2 sets up near the plate about a step up the third base line.
As the runner runs over the plate the catcher bumps her causing her foot to miss the base hitting the black that is not actually part of the plate.
F2 then catches the ball and swipes back toward the runner who has just passed the plate.
PU then signals safe while runner stops at first.
Home team swarms the field and surrounds the safe runner at home plate.

[At this point, prior to this thread if I'm PU the game is over because I don't want trouble where none is needed. But it seems some of you think this should end like this:]
PU calls dead ball. Announces obstruction and awards home.
PU waits around for ample time trying to watch the swarm the whole time to see if the awarded runner ever gets home.
F2 then says blue she missed the plate.
PU gives his best sell out and prepares to eject at least the head coach from the home team plus maybe a few others.

Thoughts?

--Ben
________
MEDICAL CANNABIS SEEDS