Catcher Standing on Plate.

[GaryBarrentine]

ASA 14U Rec Ball.

R1 on 1st, Batter lays down a bunt.

F5 fields and badly over throws F4 in an attempt to force R1 at 2nd, ball gets past F8 and rolls a very long way, R1 scores. As BR rounds 3rd, F2 move to and stands on plate waiting for throw from F6 who is behind 2nd and has taken a cut off throw from F8. BR has to move around F2(who does not have the ball) to attempt to touch the plate. After passing the plate, BR trots into the Dugout(DBT) and is called out by PU for not touching the plate. When asked if not touching a base is an appeal play, PU stated that F2(who never received the ball, ball was thrown by F6 to F1) stated that the runner did not touched the plate.

Question 1, is not touching touching a base an appeal play?
Question 2, if so, can a fielder without the ball appeal a missed base?
Question 3, if no appeal was made, is the runner out if he/she does not touch the plate and enter DBT?
Question 4, Could obstruction be considered, as F2 did not have the ball and run had to move around F2
to attempt to touch the plate?

Thanks
GaryB

[MNBlue]

I'll give it a try.

Q1. Yes. ASA 8.7.1
Q2. Yes. During a dead ball appeal.
Q3. No. Assuming, of couse, that the runner physically passed home plate and didn't just go to DBT while being between 3rd and home. Unless, of course, your umpire is making up rules, then almost anything goes.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by GaryBarrentine

Question 4, Could obstruction be considered, as F2 did not have the ball and run had to move around F2 to attempt to touch the plate?

You overlooked one, Mark.

The answer is, yes, you did describe obstruction. However, even with obstruction, the runner must touch the plate. IOW, obstruction would not negate the appeal. The runner would still be out on appeal.

[youngump]

So in addition to the questions, from the OP it looks like we should have seen an obstruction call here. But I'm not sure I'm comfortable with how this one works. An obstructed runner still needs to touch the base and has no protection for a missed base? So supposing the runner doesn't get the base because of obstruction and leaves the field thinking they did get it, they enjoy no protection from being appealed out in this situation?
Even though the runner may have thought they got the very small piece of home that the catcher wasn't obstructing?
--Ben.
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[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

You overlooked one, Mark.

4 wasn't there when I replied. Look at the time stamps.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by youngump

So supposing the runner doesn't get the base because of obstruction and leaves the field thinking they did get it, they enjoy no protection from being appealed out in this situation?

At 14U, this would be a great learning opportunity. Always touch the bases.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by youngump

So in addition to the questions, from the OP it looks like we should have seen an obstruction call here. But I'm not sure I'm comfortable with how this one works. An obstructed runner still needs to touch the base and has no protection for a missed base? So supposing the runner doesn't get the base because of obstruction and leaves the field thinking they did get it, they enjoy no protection from being appealed out in this situation?
Even though the runner may have thought they got the very small piece of home that the catcher wasn't obstructing?
--Ben.

Correct. It is no different from an unobstructed runner thinking they got the edge of the plate, but missed it. ASA 8-5-B says, in part,

Obstructed runners are required to touch all bases in proper order.

[greymule]

Yes, obstructed runners have to touch the bases. But I thought that if the OBS caused the runner to miss the base, it was a different story. The OP seems to describe such a case.

[bkbjones]

Was obstruction called? by that, I mean did you have a delayed dead ball followed by a dead ball, to give the obstructed runner the opportunity to touch the base she missed due to the obstruction. Failing that, you have now given full and unfair advantage to the defense -- in my opinion.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Was obstruction called? by that, I mean did you have a delayed dead ball followed by a dead ball, to give the obstructed runner the opportunity to touch the base she missed due to the obstruction.

John - mechanically, are you going to do that any different than you would at first, second, or third? Meaning, when I have obstruction, I give the DDB, wait for the play to end, kill it, announce obstruction and announce that the runner is awarded a base (if it applies). At the plate, if I do that, I can honestly see the runner getting excited and being congratulated by her team mates. So, do we leave it up to the coach to inform his runner to touch the awarded plate? Or, do we say/do something different?

[NCASAUmp]

ASA 14U Rec Ball.

Question 1: Yes.
Question 2: If the ball is dead, yes, an INfielder can make the appeal. Outfielders may not do so. If you hear an outfielder calling out an appeal, pretend you don't hear him/her, but keep your ears peeled for an infielder repeating the "appeal."
Question 3: No.
Question 4: Only in the sense that you give the runner enough time to allow her to complete their baserunning responsibilities. Once she goes into the dugout, or if a runner behind her scores (if we're in a situation where there's another runner), she can't return to touch HP. At that point, she may be properly appealed by the defense.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Was obstruction called? by that, I mean did you have a delayed dead ball followed by a dead ball, to give the obstructed runner the opportunity to touch the base she missed due to the obstruction. Failing that, you have now given full and unfair advantage to the defense -- in my opinion.

Take the OP situation. When would you call the ball dead?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Question 4: Only in the sense that you give the runner enough time to allow her to complete their baserunning responsibilities. Once she goes into the dugout, or if a runner behind her scores (if we're in a situation where there's another runner), she can't return to touch HP. At that point, she may be properly appealed by the defense.

The defense could make a live ball appeal at any time. In the OP, the BR entered the dugout. There were no more runners on base, and the BR could no longer return to touch. The dead ball verbal appeal could then be honored.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by greymule

Yes, obstructed runners have to touch the bases. But I thought that if the OBS caused the runner to miss the base, it was a different story. The OP seems to describe such a case.

I think gm is saying the runner would have reached home (ITUJ) if not obstructed.
Isn't this the same as a runner tagged between the point of OBS and the next base or returning to the previous base because of being OBS and then being awarded the attempted base?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by greymule

Yes, obstructed runners have to touch the bases. But I thought that if the OBS caused the runner to miss the base, it was a different story. The OP seems to describe such a case.

Even if the OBS caused the runner to miss the base, you're still going to award the runner the base they would have gotten had there been no OBS. That being said, runners should still complete their baserunning responsibilities. If this means she has to go back 30 feet, touch the missed base, and then continue on, then so be it.