Runner goes in standing up

[Porch Dog]

When a runner (FED) goes directly into a base standing up and his action POSSIBLY prevents a double play is this interference? If so,does proximity to the base make any difference. Thanks! Porch Dog

[jicecone]

First thing, if the runner is 30 feet from the bag, chances are he cannot alter the play unless waving the arms in an attempt distract the fielder. so proximity to the base in this manner is important.

The key is, DID the runner do anything to alter the play? Sliding, standing, whatever. If so, you now have two outs.

Sounds simple, but its the easiest way to understand.

POSSIBLY, is the decision you will have to make.

[johnSandlin]

Porch dog,

I have to with jiceone on this rule. On a call like this, you have to let everything develop and then let everything happen. At best, you have a "possibly" call. But, before you make a call, see the whole play.

[Tim C]

There is no "must slide" rule in Fed, NCAA or OBR.

Your question was FED and there is not a violation of the rule.

Simply being "in the way" is NOT grounds for calling an out (or extra outs) as stated, the runner must be doing something extra (waving arms, etc.) for you to consider a penalty.

[jicecone]

I disagree Tim C. The runner may not of purposely did anything by being in the way, but may still have altered the play.

FED 8 Art.2.c "Any runner is out when he: does not legally attempt to avoid a fielder in the immediate act of making a play on him;"

b. does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play,

"Simply being in the way may not be grounds for calling an out", but, not getting out of the way and altering the play is definitely grounds for calling an out or even two.!!!!

Going in standing up is not itself illegal. However if you alter play in any way it is an interference call. You may call one or two depending on the play. Just remember if you have to explain to the coach don't say you have a FPSR violation. What you have is an interference call period.
It will save spreading the "Must Slide" myth if you explain it by the corrct rule.

[bluezebra]

Dizzy Dean did that once, and took the relay throw right between the eyes. Didn't matter to Ol' Diz, he finished the game anyway.

Bob

[Tim C]

You can disagree all you want but you are still wrong.

There is no rule reference in ANY of the three major rule books that require a slide.

I agree that not sliding can cause a runner to be suspect -- but -- no runner is REQUIRED to slide at any time.

Disagree all you want, but you will lose the protest when filed.

I came back to add the following:

Players are not required to "disappear" during play.

Examples:

R2. Less than 2 out. Attempting to steal third F2 throws towards third base. However the ball strikes the bat of the batter who is standing in the batter's box exactly where he was when the pitch was caught. The ball goes into DBT.

Ruling:

R2 is awarded home. The batter did not HAVE to move to accommodate the throw. IN FACT if he moved then there could have been a violation.

Examples:

R2. Less than 2 out. Batter hits a long fly ball to F8. R2 returns and tags up correctly. Batter after hitting ball continues to run the bases in correct order and is somewhere near 2nd base when F8 secures possesion for the out. F8 then gets confused and thinks that the Batter, now trotting to wards first base (which is in a direct line to his dugout) and throws towards first base in an attempt to catch that runner off his base. The ball gets by the first baseman and goes into DBT.

Ruling:

R2 is awarded home. A player does not have to disappear after being put out he can still be in the middle of the play after being out.

Example:

R3. Less than 2 out. Batter flies to F9. Rather deeply. Batter has rounded first base as F9's throw is headed for the plate in an attempt to retire R3 who tagged correctly. Ball strikes Batter who is about six feet inside the diamond to towards 2nd base in a direct line to that base.

Ruling:

Nuttin'. Again, UNLESS there is INTENT to interfer there is no violation of rules.

All these are similar to the play referenced above.

There is no rule that requires players to "disappear" or slide.

T







[Edited by Tim C on May 4th, 2002 at 10:29 PM]

[jicecone]

Tim C.

I know your reading something , but it was not something I wrote. Look again. Where have I said or even implied that a runner must slide. This whole thread has not been about runners having to slide . Your the only one emphazing that point and if it makes you feel better, your absolutly right about that.

All I have stated is that the runner CANNOT do something, and that includes picking his nose, if it alters the play of the fielder.

Once again your right, (Thats two now) the runner cant disappear. But for heaven sake read the original question. (Something you have been having a problem with.)

"When a runner (FED) goes directly into a base standing up and his action POSSIBLY prevents a double play is this interference?"

The writer asked about FED, not any other League and nothing about sliding. If your judgement thinks that the runner has altered the play by this action or non-action on his part, then by all means you have interference.!!!!!

The runner may not have done anything intentional to alter the play but if he does are we to ask if he meant to breakup the DP first and then make are decision.
Im not waiting for an answer, I got two outs. Next batter.

[bob jenkins]

I gnerally agree with jicecone on this play (using FED rules).

In FED it's a violation when a runner, on a force play, does not slide in a direct line between the bases. Exception: The runner may slde or run in a direction away from the fielder.

Note that the rule doesn't say that contact / alteration is required. Nor does it say that the runner must slide (he can run away from the fielder).

Since the runner didnt' slide in a direct line, didn't slide away from the fielder, and didn't run away from the fielder, by a strict reading of the rules, I think this is a FPSR violation.

I understand that what is written might not be what the rules committee meant, though. We'll see.

Bob:
You can go in standing and not automaticly be illegal. If you alter the play it's a straight interference call not a FPSR. If you slide you must slide legally,then if you do anything illegal then the FPSR comes in. You are correct that it doesn't reguire alteration. I believe that was checked with McNeely and that was his ruling. Don't quote me on that but I'm pretty sure it was run by him.

[Tim C]

Jicecone:

It is just not worth my effort.

Tee

[Edited by Tim C on May 5th, 2002 at 05:51 PM]

[jicecone]

TC

There is nothing wrong with a good discussion but when you start sending me personal email labled F*** SH**. Then your stepping out of line.

[Tim C]

As anyone on the boards knows "F***Stick" was coined by the famous Blaine Gallent (who writes for this page). It is a term of great reverence only accorded to those umpires that reach the highest levels.

As I expected you don't have the guts to take this off line.

Tee

[PAblue87]

What kind of response is that? Take things off line. This was a civil discussion, and jicecone had a very valid argument, and for the most part many agreed with him, as i do, based on the original post. I would hate to see the responses you give coaches. Take the chip off your shoulder and do not make everything personal. We are all tryinng to learn and improve.