Infield Fly - ball lands foul & rolls fair

[bd41flpk]

Scenario: R1 and R2 on base w/1 out. B/R hits a fly ball between home and 1st near the foul line. UIC correctly declares - '....infield fly if fair, Batter is out...' Ball is allowed to drope between the catcher and the pitcher in foul territory, yet it now has some back spin and then rolls back fair and comes to a 'stop' in fair territory.

Ruling: R1 and R2 advance to 2nd and 3rd bases respecively and B/R is declare out? Correct ruling?

Also, can someone please give me some wording around the characteristics of the 'infield fly' rule?

[NCASAUmp]

ASA - It's still an infield fly.

Rule 1: Definition - INFIELD FLY: A fair fly ball, not including a line drive or an attempted bunt which can be caught by an infielder, pitcher or catcher with ordinary effort when first and second or first, second and third bases are occupied with less than two outs.

It does not say that the ball has to first land in fair territory. It only says that it must be ruled a fair batted ball. It also says that it must be a fly ball that can be caught by any infielder with "ordinary effort," so if catching the ball requires extraordinary effort to do so, it's not IFF. "Ordinary effort" is left to the judgment of the HP umpire.

Runners may still advance at their own risk. If it's caught, runners must tag up just like any other caught fly ball. If it's not caught, runners can advance without tagging up.

[BretMan]

My suggestion would be for you to find your rule book, then read the definition of "Infield Fly". The "wording and characteristics" are right there, and all we could really do here is just repeat that same definition.

As for your sample play, think about these two points:

1) By definition, an infield fly must be a FAIR batted ball.

2) Would you call the batted ball from your question as fair or foul?

[tntviper1]

in utrip it is an infield fly if it is in fair territory before passing 1st or 3rd. umps should call "infield fly if fair". and runners may be at risk. they can advance if it is fair.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tntviper1

in utrip it is an infield fly if it is in fair territory before passing 1st or 3rd. umps should call "infield fly if fair". and runners may be at risk. they can advance if it is fair.

I don't do U-trip, but I seriously doubt this interpretation.

[DaveASA/FED]

Not sure why you doubt it Irish, I might say there should be a few more descriptive words, or reworded a little bit. If the ball (assummed to be a pop fly easily catchable by an infielder) is ruled fair (what I think the poster was meaning when he stated in fair territory before 1st or 3rd) it is an IFF and runners can advance as all IFF rules state. being at risk to tag up if caught, and at risk to be tagged out if off a base.

[Skahtboi]

Mike is right, as per usual. USSSA has a similar IFR to all other codes. It reads:

INFIELD FLY. An infield fly is a fair fly (not including a line drive or an
attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort
(rule does not preclude outfielders from being allowed to make the catch);
and provided the hit is made before two are out and at a time when first
and second base or all bases are occupied.

This is from last year's book, as I don't have a 2008 handy. But I am sure there has been no change to this.

Viper, I don't know where you got your interpretation from, but we really need to stick to the rules, and not try and interpret them or believe any interp we have been given.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Not sure why you doubt it Irish, I might say there should be a few more descriptive words, or reworded a little bit. If the ball (assummed to be a pop fly easily catchable by an infielder) is ruled fair (what I think the poster was meaning when he stated in fair territory before 1st or 3rd) it is an IFF and runners can advance as all IFF rules state. being at risk to tag up if caught, and at risk to be tagged out if off a base.

The poster specifically noted before the ball passed either corner base. That implies that behind the base would not be an infield fly. We also know that a ball in flight is nothing more than a ball in flight. It is neither fair nor foul until it touches someone/something, comes to rest on the ground or has left the playing area.

[CecilOne]

What is it that Mike and Scott are objecting to? Is it the incompleteness?

NOTE: this is his 1st post, perhaps not as well presented as those with years of experience on a forum, but ...

Seems to me I have to clarify what I say fairly often when being too cryptic.

[celebur]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

Scenario: R1 and R2 on base w/1 out. B/R hits a fly ball between home and 1st near the foul line. UIC correctly declares - '....infield fly if fair, Batter is out...' Ball is allowed to drope between the catcher and the pitcher in foul territory, yet it now has some back spin and then rolls back fair and comes to a 'stop' in fair territory.

Ruling: R1 and R2 advance to 2nd and 3rd bases respecively and B/R is declare out? Correct ruling?

Also, can someone please give me some wording around the characteristics of the 'infield fly' rule?

Just to be sure you understand, in your example, yes, the B/R is out on the infield fly, but the ball is still live and in play. Runners may advance but are in jeopardy if they do.

Rather than just learn the IFR, you need to understand the reason for its existence, which is to prevent the defense from turning an easy double play by allowing a fly ball to hit the ground uncaught. While there are some different quirks in different rulesets, you should be able to reason out all the essentials from this.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What is it that Mike and Scott are objecting to? Is it the incompleteness?

Read the post Mike made 5 minutes before you made this one.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

Also, can someone please give me some wording around the characteristics of the 'infield fly' rule?

Another very important thing to remember is: the infield fly rule is NOT there to punish the offense. It is there to PROTECT the offense. Without the infield fly rule, a ball could be fair and uncaught, thereby putting the offense in jeopardy of an easy double or triple play.

I'm something of a rules historian and would be happy to give you some of the history of the rule if need be to further your understanding of the rule.

And...welcome to the forum.

[jmaellis]

brand-spanking-new ump. here with a question.

I get the infield fly rule and it's purpose. In the OP the ball landed in foul territory and then rolled fair. Why, in this scenario isn't this just a foul ball .. or is it? I'm having trouble following the different replies with regard to the correct ruling in this situation.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jmaellis

brand-spanking-new ump. here with a question.

I get the infield fly rule and it's purpose. In the OP the ball landed in foul territory and then rolled fair. Why, in this scenario isn't this just a foul ball .. or is it? I'm having trouble following the different replies with regard to the correct ruling in this situation.

Hey welcome to the blue!

The first thing you need to know is forum umpires love debating nuance.

I havent read this whole thread, so its probably a lot of that.


The OP stated lands on the foul side and rolls fair between H/1B.. so that is what? Fair.. so IFF would apply since it applies to fair balls (as opposed to foul balls).

[shipwreck]

I have always thought that the IFR should be in effect even if it is only with first base occupied and less than 2 outs. What protects the offense if the defense just lets the ball drop and then turns a double play?