Infield Fly - ball lands foul & rolls fair

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

Also, can someone please give me some wording around the characteristics of the 'infield fly' rule?

Another very important thing to remember is: the infield fly rule is NOT there to punish the offense. It is there to PROTECT the offense. Without the infield fly rule, a ball could be fair and uncaught, thereby putting the offense in jeopardy of an easy double or triple play.

I'm something of a rules historian and would be happy to give you some of the history of the rule if need be to further your understanding of the rule.

And...welcome to the forum.

[jmaellis]

brand-spanking-new ump. here with a question.

I get the infield fly rule and it's purpose. In the OP the ball landed in foul territory and then rolled fair. Why, in this scenario isn't this just a foul ball .. or is it? I'm having trouble following the different replies with regard to the correct ruling in this situation.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jmaellis

brand-spanking-new ump. here with a question.

I get the infield fly rule and it's purpose. In the OP the ball landed in foul territory and then rolled fair. Why, in this scenario isn't this just a foul ball .. or is it? I'm having trouble following the different replies with regard to the correct ruling in this situation.

Hey welcome to the blue!

The first thing you need to know is forum umpires love debating nuance.

I havent read this whole thread, so its probably a lot of that.


The OP stated lands on the foul side and rolls fair between H/1B.. so that is what? Fair.. so IFF would apply since it applies to fair balls (as opposed to foul balls).

[shipwreck]

I have always thought that the IFR should be in effect even if it is only with first base occupied and less than 2 outs. What protects the offense if the defense just lets the ball drop and then turns a double play?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I have always thought that the IFR should be in effect even if it is only with first base occupied and less than 2 outs. What protects the offense if the defense just lets the ball drop and then turns a double play?

Nothing, as long as the defense did not touch the ball in flight and intentionally drop it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Nothing, as long as the defense did not touch the ball in flight and intentionally drop it.

What does "touch the ball in flight" have to do with it? I am assuming that this statement is separate from "intentionally drop" since it is obvious the defense must touch a ball in flight to effect and intentional drop.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What does "touch the ball in flight" have to do with it? I am assuming that this statement is separate from "intentionally drop" since it is obvious the defense must touch a ball in flight to effect and intentional drop.

Not separate, clarifying the intentional drop rule for newbies and those who questioned "let it fall" versus "intentional drop" in another topic. I guess I should not have underlined part of the rule, but that was my original wording and I was emphasizing which rule I was talking about.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I have always thought that the IFR should be in effect even if it is only with first base occupied and less than 2 outs. What protects the offense if the defense just lets the ball drop and then turns a double play?

Nothing if the idiot BR doesn't run to 1B, nor does the offense deserve any protection. If the D turns two because the BR doesn't run to 1B, the defense deserves the double play.

The reason the rule is there is because the runners are in a no win situation since they are required to tag up prior to advancing on a caught fly ball. The BR has no such restrictions.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I have always thought that the IFR should be in effect even if it is only with first base occupied and less than 2 outs. What protects the offense if the defense just lets the ball drop and then turns a double play?

Coaching the BR to run out her pop fly.

[DaveASA/FED]

Ok by RS 30 an ID ball is one that was caught so BR is out. So the only reason we kill it is to protect the runners from thinking the dropped ball was NOT a catch and has put them into a position to have to advance. So we have a legal catch and BR out by fielders action (different from IF) and this following action of dropping the ball, possibly decieving the offense making them think it was NOT a catch is the reason for killing the play and putting them back in the TOP positions.

Does that seem about right? I am really saying the above to make sure I understand this right!!!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jmaellis

brand-spanking-new ump. here with a question.

I get the infield fly rule and it's purpose. In the OP the ball landed in foul territory and then rolled fair. Why, in this scenario isn't this just a foul ball .. or is it? I'm having trouble following the different replies with regard to the correct ruling in this situation.

Set aside the IFR* in your mind for now. Any batted ball that settles or is first touched in fair ground before passing the bases is a fair ball. It does not matter if it touched foul ground first. Past the bases, it has to touch fair ground first, but that is not the question here.
So, if it is a fair ball, the IFR* applies if the other conditions are met.

Fair/foul and IFR* if fair are two separate issues. As Tom says repeatedly and more clearly, an IFR* infield fly is the same as any other fly ball except the batter is automatically out.

* IFR, not IFF, infield is one word.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Another very important thing to remember is: the infield fly rule is NOT there to punish the offense. It is there to PROTECT the offense. Without the infield fly rule, a ball could be fair and uncaught, thereby putting the offense in jeopardy of an easy double or triple play.

Now that "about to receive" has been eliminated elsewhere, it's time to eliminate "ordinary effort" from the IFR and focus on "runner(s) in jeopardy"; the real purpose of the rule.