National Umpire School in NC

[tcblue13]

I am not a registered ASA umpire. Can I still attend the school??

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

I am not a registered ASA umpire. Can I still attend the school??

That is probably up to the school coordinator. Contact NC UIC Phil King, or Commissioner Tony Laws.

IMO, the training is not a copyright activity, like the rulebook or uniforms. If it were my school (which it isn't), my gut call is yes, so long as you don't bump an ASA umpire from attending.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

That is probably up to the school coordinator. Contact NC UIC Phil King, or Commissioner Tony Laws.

IMO, the training is not a copyright activity, like the rulebook or uniforms. If it were my school (which it isn't), my gut call is yes, so long as you don't bump an ASA umpire from attending.

I agree with Steve's reasoning, however, I would disagree with allowing it.

To begin, like in many other areas, I have to compete for umpires. It is bad enough when a registered ASA umpire takes the training I provide and works for the competition when I need him for a tournament, I certainly am not going to do the competition's job without at least getting a registration and possible availabitlity out of it.

Yes, I know that sounds selfish, but I need to cover games for ASA, not train umpires to make it easier for the competition to draw umpires and teams away.

And then there is the issue of liability.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

I am not a registered ASA umpire. Can I still attend the school??

Why not???

[Scooby]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

I am not a registered ASA umpire. Can I still attend the school??

Yes you can! Just pay your money.
I have been at several schools with Kevin Ryan as an instructor. Very funny and very good instructor.

[bigsig]

[QUOTE=IRISHMAFIA]I agree with Steve's reasoning, however, I would disagree with allowing it.

To begin, like in many other areas, I have to compete for umpires. It is bad enough when a registered ASA umpire takes the training I provide and works for the competition when I need him for a tournament, I certainly am not going to do the competition's job without at least getting a registration and possible availabitlity out of it.

Irish makes a very good point here. As umpires we are really independent contractors, able to sell our services to any organization. We can not expect to get free training without recipricating in kind. I pay my dues to the local ASA chapter every year AND in addition pay for any national schools I attend.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by bigsig

We can not expect to get free training without recipricating in kind.

I have never gotten free training from any organization, be it ASA, USSSA, or NCAA. I have paid for every school/clinic I have attended.

[NCASAUmp]

Our local umps attend "free" trainings in the spring before the local seasons kick off. They're encouraged to attend the state clinics, but they're not mandatory if all they're going to call is rec ball.

Fortunately, the free trainings are quite good, as the trainers are solid, national level umpires who know how to teach.

As for tcblue13's question, I agree with Steve. Call Phil. If you need his contact info, let me know.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I have never gotten free training from any organization, be it ASA, USSSA, or NCAA. I have paid for every school/clinic I have attended.

And with the exception of our state school, all ASA training in my state are free of charge. Clinics are open to anyone who cares to attend as they concentrate on rules and some mechanics (75%/25%).

As for the full day mechanics school, there is a $20 charge which includes a school shirt (quality T with embossed logo).

I will open it up to non-registered umpires, but will register them prior to the school.

[bigsig]

[QUOTE=IRISHMAFIA]And with the exception of our state school, all ASA training in my state are free of charge. Clinics are open to anyone who cares to attend as they concentrate on rules and some mechanics (75%/25%).

There is a difference between "no charge" and "free". My local annual ASA dues are $105. That covers my membership and an annual no charge clinic. I pay an additional charge to attend National Schools. My only point is that I would not like to see someone attend the local clinic or a national school without having to pay both local dues and school fees. I don't thonk that would be fair to the local membership.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bigsig

There is a difference between "no charge" and "free". My local annual ASA dues are $105. That covers my membership and an annual no charge clinic. I pay an additional charge to attend National Schools. My only point is that I would not like to see someone attend the local clinic or a national school without having to pay both local dues and school fees. I don't thonk that would be fair to the local membership.

But your rate isn't going to go down if you do not utilize the clinic. I will register umpires of a local softball organization (daddy volunteers) at a very reduced rate, but they will not work any games other than their own league games which do not use anything other than volunteers.

The state association includes a provision in it's by-laws that requires umpires to belong to a local association in order to be assigned games, so the umpires are protected.

[bigsig]

What you're talking about is fine. I'm talking about members of other associations. In my area we compete for leagues and tournaments by bid with USSSA, NSA, etc. I would not want to see the ASA training their umpires.

[NCASAUmp]

Just wanting to refresh this post, as the deadline is getting near. I spoke with Phil yesterday, and the school is still on. The more we have, the better the class will be.

If anyone needs directions or contact info, please let me know.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Just wanting to refresh this post, as the deadline is getting near. I spoke with Phil yesterday, and the school is still on. The more we have, the better the class will be.

Now, there is a myth. That would all depend on the instructor-to-student ratio. I've met quite a few people who believed (and it is a viable complaint) that they were cheated by an over-booked school.

I believe the standard is no more than 25 students per instructor, yet there have been schools in the past that got well over 100 without adding help.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Now, there is a myth. That would all depend on the instructor-to-student ratio. I've met quite a few people who believed (and it is a viable complaint) that they were cheated by an over-booked school.

I believe the standard is no more than 25 students per instructor, yet there have been schools in the past that got well over 100 without adding help.

Having been on the planning committee for the 2006 NUS in Seattle - the one they all talk about breaking the records with 276 students - bigger was not better. I also tallied all of the evaluations, and the biggest complaints were:

(a) Not enough time to repeat drills. Too many students in each group meant less cycles through the drills
(b) Student to instructor ratio was too high. We supplimented the NUS with local staff to help out, but the students prefered to be taught by NUS, NOT locals.

There were multiple lessons learned, but those were the big ones. One good thing that came out of it is that because of the size and the lessons that were learned, it became a teaching experience in and of itself to the NUS on how a school should (or shouldn't) be run.

(We did, however, have enough beer for hospitality... went through 4 kegs in 2 days with that crowd! - and yes, that was my responsibility... )