What are your thoughts.....

[Steve M]

Base on your description, I've still got 2 outs and the bases loaded - with a run scored. Some part of the runner went past the plate, to me, that qualifies as past the base. The defense did not make an appeal on the missed base, so there is no other choice but safe.
I do not see a "definition" of what constitutes passing a base, that's why I'm very comfortable with any part of the runner being past the plate meeting the requirements of "passing a base".

Now, I don't think your partner did you any good. Those discussions should always take place alone, away from the field - in a post game meeting. When they happen during a game, not much that 's good is likely to happen - somebody else may overhear, you may think about your partner's words and be distracted from what happens next, ...

[NCASAUmp]

I'll admit that initially, my instinct is to call the runner out. However, I looked into this further, and it looks like you're right... and wrong.

Look into Rule 8-7-I. John's right, it is an appeal play. However, Andy is right: your partner subscribes to the chickensh*t umpiring system. Never, EVER base your calls on popularity. On bam-bam plays, either way you call, you're probably going to p1ss off about 50% of the people watching the game anyway. So make the right call according to the rules and what you judge. The rulebook will be your saving grace.

Ahhhh.... 15 years into this profession, and I still have much to learn!

[IRISHMAFIA]

If the slide was wide with, in your judgment, full intent of tagging the plate with the hand, DMR, I believe this is an out.

And please do not tell me you cannot read the runner's mind. As an umpire, you are accepting pay to observe, judge and rule.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If the slide was wide with, in your judgment, full intent of tagging the plate with the hand, DMR, I believe this is an out.

And please do not tell me you cannot read the runner's mind. As an umpire, you are accepting pay to observe, judge and rule.

If this is what you saw, I agree. But, I don't see a runner using this kind of slide except when there is a tag play. Since it's not a tag play, I see the runner as just having missed the plate - so I need an appeal.

[BretMan]

My instinct is to call the out on the force play.

I'm basing this on my reading of the description that, to me, sounds like the runner made a poor slide and touched the plate (too late) on her initial effort, before completely passing it (ie: this never reached the point of becoming a missed base appeal play).

I suppose this might hinge on a definition of what constitutes the runner being "past" the base. Absent a definition, I would offer the analogy of how a runner is defined as being "past" another runner on the basepaths.

From R/S #39: "To pass a runner, the trail runner must pass the entire body of the lead runner, not just an arm or leg ahead of the trail runner."

Derived from that definition of "to pass": To pass a base, the runner's entire body must pass the base, not just an arm or leg ahead of the base.

[wadeintothem]

I've had the same play with the same coach going ballistic more than a few times.. and it pretty much sucks when only a few could be in position to see it.. but thats why you are there.

You made the right call.

Your partner is full of it.

And pay no mind the the appeal thing, its really stretching it to try to make this an appeal play as described. On any type of wide slide, hook slide etc, its when they touch the bag.. not pass the plate/base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Steve M

If this is what you saw, I agree. But, I don't see a runner using this kind of slide except when there is a tag play. Since it's not a tag play, I see the runner as just having missed the plate - so I need an appeal.

Nobody said the players are smart, maybe she didn't know the difference. The more I think about it, I also have a problem with applying ASA 8.3.B. If parts of the runner's body were still in a position to tag a base without moving in a reversed manner, IMO, the runner has yet to "pass" the base.

However, if you want to apply intellect to the play, consider these from the OP:

The only way a player slides feet first and misses the plate is hook slide. Otherwise, other parts of the body would touch the plate prior to getting to the shoulder level. However, a hook slide is also used primarily to avoid a tag.

Since this was a force play, sliding would only slow the runner down. So, why is the player sliding? The catcher's location was mentioned as "standing on the plate". Well, that is a no brainer for a force out. However, since there was no mention of that being an issue in the play, I have to assume OBS was not a concern. However, if it was to avoid a collision, how is it she missed both the plate and the catcher unless the wide slide was intentional? I don't think I have ever seen a player, adult or youth, just out right miss a base on a slide

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I don't think I have ever seen a player, adult or youth, just out right miss a base on a slide

Are you sure? Not even in Coed Rec leagues in slow-pitch?

[JPRempe]

The runner never passed the base without touching it, so there is no reason for an appeal by the defense since the play is, for all intents and purposes, not even over.