fair pole

Originally Posted by Dakota

ASA 8-5-IHowever, that said, this would be a home run, wouldn't it? Deflecting off the foul pole is considered having cleared the (mythical) fence in fair territory.

So, you're saying it could have hit the pole a foot above the ground and we can declare it a homerun?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

So, you're saying it could have hit the pole a foot above the ground and we can declare it a homerun?

Dakota, I think he has you there.

Book rule double, if it has not cleared a defined boundary (fence, or line).

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

So, you're saying it could have hit the pole a foot above the ground and we can declare it a homerun?

So, you're saying it could hit the pole 10 feet above the ground and we can declare it a double?

Originally Posted by Dakota

So, you're saying it could hit the pole 10 feet above the ground and we can declare it a double?

No, because the ball is in play. I guess I should explain...our UIC told us if we work on a field that has no outfield boundary, e.g. no fence or chalk line, the ball is in play all the way out to the next town if need be. Question was asked if the ball went off the pole, can that be an exception. He said it's still live, unless it goes past the side fence extended, then it would be out of play and then ball out of play effects would come in.

The rule you cited, 8-5-I, can only be effective IF there is some kind of boundary, whether a fence or a chalk line. The foul pole CANNOT become an imaginary boundary for this purpose, because it would be chaotic if one umpire says it hit the pole at 6 feet therefore homerun while another would leave the ball in play and not say anything. There has to be some kind of tangible, visible boundary marker. Our UIC has hammered on this several times. He was challenged with 8-5-I, and responded that due to a lack of a visible boundary, the ball stays in play. He said he keeps bringing this up at NUS (just for the kicks and to see what responses he gets from the National staff) and every time, he gets the same response that he's been telling us all along.

Another justification we've had is that the foul poles aren't always set at the same distance from home on all of our fields without a fence. It depends on the configurations of the park, but most of the poles are 250-300 feet from home. If we were using a 250' fence and someone hit it off the fence, it wouldn't be a homerun because the rulebook says the fences need to be a minimum distance greater than that (I don't have my book with me here at work). So, you can see why the foul poles are in play when there is a lack of a visual, tangible boundary marker.

[bkbjones]

An easy way to fix this is give some kids $20 for gas and have them go out and turn donuts in the outfield, accidentally knocking down the pole.

We have a handful of fields with just a foul pole, nothing more...and darn, if a ball hit one, well, I know it would definitely be a fair ball...beyond that, I would suppose it's live.

At one of our softball emporiums, a pre-game check had best include which way they have turned the foul poles on the temporary fencing. More than once the screen has been on the foul side of the line. I know, I know, but the guys who "take care" of these fields could screw up a wet dream. Last game I did, we had a girl who went down after taking a line drive to the noggin. She was ok and getting up, wanting us to get going...when here came S4Brains on a John Deere tractor putt-putting across the field. I asked him WTF are you doing, we're still playing, get off the field...

"No you're not playing, she's hurt and I'm driving across," says Mr. Rocket Scientist.

I think the next to the next to the last thing I hollered at him was "ignorant." The next to last thing had something to do with one of his parents, and it was not his father.

(OK...I didn't say these out loud...but I wanted to.)

[CecilOne]

Batted ball hits fair/foul pole - it is fair.

Batted ball hits fair/foul pole or anything else in fair ground beyond the bases, it is live until and unless it enters dead ball territory.

If it enters dead ball territory, it is dead, no matter what (if anything) it hit on the way. There is no automatic dead ball territory unless discussed as ground rules.

On a batted ball that goes dead, BR & Rx get 2 bases from the TOP.
No judgement or opinion required, just arithmetic.
The "2 bases" is both an award and a limit. A limit because the defense can no longer make a play.


I'm sure someone will tell me if I missed something.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I'm sure someone will tell me if I missed something.

ASA 8-5-H.

[BretMan]

How does this part of that rule: ...strikes the foul pole above the fence level...have any meaning if there is no fence?

Having no fence would seem to make that part of the rule moot.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

So, you're saying it could have hit the pole a foot above the ground and we can declare it a homerun?

Especially if you have in mind the collapsible fences that never stand up correctly anyway.

But, with no fence Two base award