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Old Tue May 27, 2003, 10:17pm
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11-12's tonite, good friend I played lotsa ball with is manager of one team. They, quite frankly, suck. Continuous batting order, so all 14 kids bat. Top 4, #13 in the order is up, inside pitch, swings and THUD, ball rolls into fair territory off the hands. I kill it and announce " hit batter while swinging, STRIKE". Coaches check out player and manager comes to me...whatttt was that???? I explain the kid got hit while swinging... Then comes the proverbial but aren't the hands part....Thats all he got out, I grabbed the bat and asked him to show me the "hands", OH, I see, but it did go fair!!!! Sorry bud, but that was only strike 1, he got two more hacks......good laugh, and now one more manager knows one more rule this week....LOL
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Old Wed May 28, 2003, 06:16am
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Talking

when will they learn??
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Old Wed May 28, 2003, 12:12pm
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never..

Quote:
Originally posted by cowbyfan1
when will they learn??
Dat's why we are in charge.
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Old Wed May 28, 2003, 01:33pm
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I had a swing last night where an inside pitch hit the bat but also pinched part of the kid's right index finger (RH batter). From the "ding" sound, it clearly got bat, but from the kid's obvious pain, it also got finger. I talked to the kid later, and he said that what happened was what I thought happened: the ball hit both bat and finger.

Anyway, the ball dribbled to the pitcher for an easy out. I let the play stand and nobody said anything, but I admit I'm not sure whether bat or finger takes precedence.
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Old Wed May 28, 2003, 02:19pm
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Yes, what is the correct answer.

Batter swings and ball hits his hands and the bat, ball roles into fair territory, umpire correctly yells dead ball and assesses a strike, it is the batter's 3rd strike. Is the batter out?

FED 8-1-1d
Batter becomes a runner when a pitched ball hits his person or clothing, provided he does not strike at the ball
EXCEPTION ... if the umpire calls the pitched ball a strike, the hitting of the batter is deregarded except that the ball is dead.

The exception seems to be that he didn't hit the ball. The ball hit him somewhere else as he swung and the ball didn't hit the bat.

Seems that the correct call should be FOUL BALL. Hit him and the bat while still in the box.(7-2-1f)

What if it didn't hit the bat - he swings and the ball hits the hands squarely, rolls into fair territory? Now what? swing and a miss? Foul ball?

FED casebook doesn't offer much help - 8.1.1D

Somebody bust out their Jaksa/Roder and give us their interpretation.

Thanks
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Old Wed May 28, 2003, 03:14pm
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Batter srikes at pitch which then contacts bat & hand simultaneously.
Fed 8-1-1d & exception would seem to be non-applicable. Batter stikes at ball, batter hits ball not ball hitting batter.
Play stands as called.

Fed 7-2-1f appears to be non-applicable. Ball did not hit batter, ball did not contact batter after ball contacted bat while batter still in box.
Play stands as called.

Batter strikes at ball and hits ball with hand, dead ball, strike. If 3rd, then out.
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Old Wed May 28, 2003, 03:27pm
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Maybe the fairest thing is to call a foul ball, though since the finger is naturally raised from the bat, the ball probably hit finger then bat and not vice versa. Big difference with 2 strikes.

If you knew it was bat and then finger, then I guess foul ball would be the call. But tough to know.

I've been doing a lot of one-man games and miss having a BU on all those checked swings, balls off the batter's foot, bunts that bounce up and hit the batter, and so forth. I doubt whether any BU's eyes are good enough to see bat before finger versus finger before bat, though.

But I'd rather call plays at 1B from inside the infield than outside.
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Old Wed May 28, 2003, 04:49pm
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Lightbulb An unofficial reference

This month's Referee magazine (June 2003) discusses this very point. Their take on the situation is the same as woolnoggin's (you will have to explain your moniker).

They recommend that if the ball hits both bat and hand, rule that it hit the hands. If it is ruled a strike (pitch enters the strike zone, or batter was swinging at it - as is the case I proposed), the ball is dead, no runners can advance, AND IF IT IS STRIKE THREE, THE RUNNER IS OUT.

Their rule references are NFHS: 5-1-1a, 8-1-1d; NCAA: 6-4c, 8-2d; pro 5.09a, 6.08b.
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Old Wed May 28, 2003, 05:03pm
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Wink Just as tie goes to.....

Quote:
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Yes, what is the correct answer.

Batter swings and ball hits his hands and the bat, ball roles into fair territory, umpire correctly yells dead ball and assesses a strike, it is the batter's 3rd strike. Is the batter out?

FED 8-1-1d
Batter becomes a runner when a pitched ball hits his person or clothing, provided he does not strike at the ball
EXCEPTION ... if the umpire calls the pitched ball a strike, the hitting of the batter is deregarded except that the ball is dead.

The exception seems to be that he didn't hit the ball. The ball hit him somewhere else as he swung and the ball didn't hit the bat.

Seems that the correct call should be FOUL BALL. Hit him and the bat while still in the box.(7-2-1f)

What if it didn't hit the bat - he swings and the ball hits the hands squarely, rolls into fair territory? Now what? swing and a miss? Foul ball?

FED casebook doesn't offer much help - 8.1.1D

Somebody bust out their Jaksa/Roder and give us their interpretation.

Thanks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
You must determine what happened first, the result is the same, cept for strike 2 before this happens, foul or out in that case. I would err to the side of foul if you have a distinctive "ting", one of those "bffling" sounds and go with the DBStrike......jmho. But if ya got a fair dribbler, gotta kill it, hit the hand first
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