fair pole

[ChrisSportsFan]

Men's sp with no outfield fences.
Runner on 1st, batter hits a shot and the ball hits the foul side of the pole, then bounces far enough to carry out of play. I started to call a foul ball because I've never seen this before but stopped myself after sucking in enough air to call it out, checked the side fence to verify it went out of play and went with a fair ball and 2 bases (the bases the runner/batter were headed to plus one.
Did I rule correctly?

[argodad]

Originally Posted by ChrisSportsFan

Men's sp with no outfield fences.
Runner on 1st, batter hits a shot and the ball hits the foul side of the pole, then bounces far enough to carry out of play. I started to call a foul ball because I've never seen this before but stopped myself after sucking in enough air to call it out, checked the side fence to verify it went out of play and went with a fair ball and 2 bases (the bases the runner/batter were headed to plus one.
Did I rule correctly?

I'm trying to visualize a field with no outfield fences, but with a pole. Is it just sticking out of the ground by itself? Sounds like it has to be covered in ground rules discussion.

Certainly a ball that hits the pole is fair.

It's a fair ball, because the pole is part of the foul line. You had a live ball that went dead after it went past the fence extended.

FYI Larry, we have a few fields in Omaha that are used for rec leagues that have no outfield fences. The foul poles are all by themselves about 300 feet from home plate on the foul lines.

[justcallmeblue]

Ball is fair as the pole is fair. . .if the ball went into the defined dead ball territory, I would have called it Dead Ball and used my judgement on where to place the batter. I have similar issues on certain fields and I cover them in ground rules. . .but just like you, it took a weird play for me to add them to my gr's

I am assuming that the fielder had no shot at catching the ball, so I would have looked at where the runners were at the time of the contact with the pole. If BR rounded 1st and was on his way to second and in MY OPINION would have been safe at 3rd if the ball had been playable, I would have awarded him 3B, R1 scores.

There is no fault in calling it a "double"

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

Ball is fair as the pole is fair. . .if the ball went into the defined dead ball territory, I would have called it Dead Ball and used my judgement on where to place the batter. I have similar issues on certain fields and I cover them in ground rules. . .but just like you, it took a weird play for me to add them to my gr's

I am assuming that the fielder had no shot at catching the ball, so I would have looked at where the runners were at the time of the contact with the pole. If BR rounded 1st and was on his way to second and in MY OPINION would have been safe at 3rd if the ball had been playable, I would have awarded him 3B, R1 scores.

There is no fault in calling it a "double"

Speaking ASA, this does not need to be covered in the ground rules unless the ground rules contradict the book rule. And, by rule, if you are ruling this as a fair ball that goes out of play in the manner of a ground rule double, is a 2 base award from the TOP, not an "umpire judgment" award.

ASA 8-5-I

When a fair ball bounces over, rolls under or through a fence or any designated boundary of the playing field. ...
EFFECT: The ball is dead, and all runners are awarded two bases from the time of the pitch.

However, that said, this would be a home run, wouldn't it? Deflecting off the foul pole is considered having cleared the (mythical) fence in fair territory.

[JPRempe]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Speaking ASA, this does not need to be covered in the ground rules unless the ground rules contradict the book rule. And, by rule, if you are ruling this as a fair ball that goes out of play in the manner of a ground rule double, is a 2 base award from the TOP, not an "umpire judgment" award.

ASA 8-5-IHowever, that said, this would be a home run, wouldn't it? Deflecting off the foul pole is considered having cleared the (mythical) fence in fair territory.

If there are no depth/OF fences, you can't hit an OTF-HR (unless they have some kind of park/field specific rules). It hit the foul poll (fair ball), went over the guardian fence on whichever base side, and should be a 2 base award from the time of contact (again, unless that particular park/field has a rule about this type of incident and other fence rules)...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by JPRempe

If there are no depth/OF fences, you can't hit an OTF-HR (unless they have some kind of park/field specific rules). It hit the foul poll (fair ball), went over the guardian fence on whichever base side, and should be a 2 base award from the time of contact (again, unless that particular park/field has a rule about this type of incident and other fence rules)...

Lacking a field-specific ground rule, I disagree. It is reasonable to consider the foul pole to be marking the outfield boundary. Otherwise, it serves no purpose whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Dakota

ASA 8-5-IHowever, that said, this would be a home run, wouldn't it? Deflecting off the foul pole is considered having cleared the (mythical) fence in fair territory.

So, you're saying it could have hit the pole a foot above the ground and we can declare it a homerun?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

So, you're saying it could have hit the pole a foot above the ground and we can declare it a homerun?

Dakota, I think he has you there.

Book rule double, if it has not cleared a defined boundary (fence, or line).

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

So, you're saying it could have hit the pole a foot above the ground and we can declare it a homerun?

So, you're saying it could hit the pole 10 feet above the ground and we can declare it a double?

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

So, you're saying it could have hit the pole a foot above the ground and we can declare it a homerun?

Especially if you have in mind the collapsible fences that never stand up correctly anyway.

But, with no fence Two base award