Live ball appeal

[JPRempe]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

In ASA, there is nothing that says that for a live ball appeal to be valid, the fielder with the ball must say something. We grant it all the time - short fly ball to the outfield gets caught, but the runner on 2B left early, thinking it's a hit. Outfielder throws it to shortstop before the runner returns. Out.

In the second situation Mike presented (catcher calling out that BR hit the white bag and not the orange, then F3 tags the runner), I'd say this can be an acceptable live ball appeal. It's clear to everyone WHY F3 is tagging the runner, and ASA allows non-verbal live ball appeals. In this case, it's the "why" that's important.

Roger that, and I agree, but like I was saying, I usually can visualize words from books like that, but today is just not my day. Stomach flu/virus/plague is just killing my concentration right now...

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by JPRempe

Roger that, and I agree, but like I was saying, I usually can visualize words from books like that, but today is just not my day. Stomach flu/virus/plague is just killing my concentration right now...

No worries, man. That's why I don't attack people here. Hope you feel better!

[MD Longhorn]

To me, since the ONLY reason F3 could be chasing and tagging a BR who has passed first would be for some sort of an appeal, I think the mere act of initiating a tag in this case is pretty strong evidence that there's an appeal being made.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

To me, since the ONLY reason F3 could be chasing and tagging a BR who has passed first would be for some sort of an appeal, I think the mere act of initiating a tag in this case is pretty strong evidence that there's an appeal being made.

Correct. Never said there had to be a verbal, just noted that the statement "as live ball appeals do not need to be verbalized" is not absolute.

Have you ever had a firstbaseman tag every runner returning to 1B as a habit hoping to get lucky (with an out, not the runner)? Annoying as hell, but being routine, I would need an indication that he was indeed appealing the play, most likely verbal.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

To me, since the ONLY reason F3 could be chasing and tagging a BR who has passed first would be for some sort of an appeal, I think the mere act of initiating a tag in this case is pretty strong evidence that there's an appeal being made.

The key issue for a proper live ball appeal is for the umpire to know why the defender is doing what she is doing (tagging base, tagging runner, etc.) If there is reasonable ambiguity, then the defender needs to communicate somehow the purpose.

Turning and chasing the BR might be enough, but I've seen some F3's that routinely tag the returning BR trying to manufacture a try for 2B or something, I guess.

HTBT, but if it is obvious why, it is an appeal. If it is ambiguous, it is not an appeal.

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by Dakota

HTBT, but if it is obvious why, it is an appeal. If it is ambiguous, it is not an appeal.

Admittedly fairly new to forum...what the heck is HTBT?? driving me crazy

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

Admittedly fairly new to forum...what the heck is HTBT?? driving me crazy

Had To Be There.

Took me a little bit, too.

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Had To Be There.

Took me a little bit, too.

thanks

[celebur]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yep, I agree with Steve and Sean and anyone else who stated the appeal wasn't valid.

I kicked the call on a play which ended up non-existent. As Sean suspected, my mind was so wrapped up on the double base rule, I lost sight of the defender making a live ball appeal being the one with possession of the ball, although F3 made the same appeal to BU, but not until he release a throw toward 3B.

So, in hindsight, how would you recommend this be handled? Would you, as PU, simply ignore the invalid appeal? Would you reply? If so, how?

I am particularly curious because it's happened to me with runners missing home and heading for the dugout. F2 receives the ball and verbally appeals the missed base, but the ball is still live but F2 never tagged the plate nor the runner. Should I be ignoring this invalid appeal? Or say something? (I don't want to acknowledge the appeal because it isn't one, but I also don't want to be coaching the defense here).