Live ball appeal

[IRISHMAFIA]

Speaking ASA

Runners on 1B & 2B, two outs.

Batter hits grounder bobbled by F4 who recovers to make a late attempt to retire the BR.

The BR hits the white base prior to the ball arriving. The catcher immediately appeals the BR missing the correct base (to PU) as the late throw arrives with F3 still in contact with the base. BU makes a "safe" call when the ball arrives and F3 continues the play with a wild throw to 3B in an effort to retire R2 and both runners apparently score.

Your call/ruling?

[SRW]

1. Obvious late call (mentioned twice), so my judgement is no play is being made on the BR. BR can use the white. Appeal not granted. 8.2.M(3)
2. F2 didn't have the ball anyway - live ball appeal not heard. Safe at first, 2 runs score. R/S 1(B).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

1. Obvious late call (mentioned twice), so my judgement is no play is being made on the BR. BR can use the white. Appeal not granted. 8.2.M(3)

No, this reads slower than it happened. There was an apparent play coming, BR just beat the throw.

[NCASAUmp]

Appeal not granted. F3's foot on the bag in this situation is what I would call an "appeal by accident." Unless F3 says, "wrong bag, blue," I've got nothing. Live appeals must be made by the defensive player in possession of the ball.

[NCASAUmp]

Though I must say, this brings up an interesting question. F3, in all likelihood, has no clue which bag the BR touched. They're watching the incoming throw, or else someone gets beaned in the head. The only likely persons to see this are either F2 or maybe F10. Should it be changed so that this type of appeal is allowed? Otherwise, who the heck is even going to MAKE the appeal? F2 can only yell to F3 to appeal the call.

Honestly, I've NEVER had this appealed in any of my games, probably due to the reason that I mentioned above.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, this reads slower than it happened. There was an apparent play coming, BR just beat the throw.

Then I stick with my second ruling - F2 didn't have the ball, therefore her "live ball" appeal is denied.

I think I see what you're getting at tho... 8.2.M(3)-EFFECT uses the language "provided the defense appeals"... which is somewhat in conflict with R/S 1(B)...

[AtlUmpSteve]

As your heading states, this is a live ball appeal. That can only be made by a player touching the missed base or the runner with the ball. Too bad, catcher, being correct doesn't validate the appeal by someone doing neither.

Not a valid appeal, cannot be honored (or even responded to). Not really a conflict; "the defense" doesn't change the requirement that it be handled properly.

[Dholloway1962]

Just curious...what happened after the ball became dead. Did catcher appeal again? If so, wouldn't runs score and third out be called, assuming BR never "retouched" 1st base and continued on to 2nd?