Shirt quality versus pricing?

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I have never used a "lineup card holder." I normally get a hard cardboard lineup card and fold it in thirds. I clip the pen to my pocket.

Different strokes, I guess....

White pads in the mask, too?

I use a lineup card holder. someone "borrowed" my holder I got at my last national, so for a time I used one of those handy insurance card/registration things for your car. A little large...in fact due to a misunderstanding it got me in a lot of hot water...but it served its purpose.

I have been on both sides of this fence. Loved those pockets when I was doing "just" baseball, but I like having it in my card holder in my pocket. Anytime I "just fold it up," that's what it looks like...and that looks like $hit.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

White pads in the mask, too?

I use a lineup card holder. someone "borrowed" my holder I got at my last national, so for a time I used one of those handy insurance card/registration things for your car. A little large...in fact due to a misunderstanding it got me in a lot of hot water...but it served its purpose.

I have been on both sides of this fence. Loved those pockets when I was doing "just" baseball, but I like having it in my card holder in my pocket. Anytime I "just fold it up," that's what it looks like...and that looks like $hit.

Actually, I wear a helmet most of the time, but I think my mask (+POS AUL300) pads are tan. But if I wanted blue, red, or whatever, I wouldn't get any grief for wearing them. It's a mask. Again, I only work baseball now.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Actually, I wear a helmet most of the time, but I think my mask (+POS AUL300) pads are tan. But if I wanted blue, red, or whatever, I wouldn't get any grief for wearing them. It's a mask. Again, I only work baseball now.

Exactly. A sport where the uniform isn't expected to be "uniform". A game where coaches don't expect the professionalism of their umpires to be displayed by their uniform, equipment, or mechanics. An association of officials who display their individualism, rather than their unity.

Thanks for coming over here to remind me why I stopped working baseball years ago. Well, one of the reasons; not to forget the 3 hour games watching pitchers trying to pick off runners almost standing on the bag, the sheer boredom of all the delay and downtime, the whiney players, and the ridiculous attitudes of the coaches.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Exactly. A sport where the uniform isn't expected to be "uniform". A game where coaches don't expect the professionalism of their umpires to be displayed by their uniform, equipment, or mechanics. An association of officials who display their individualism, rather than their unity.

Thanks for coming over here to remind me why I stopped working baseball years ago. Well, one of the reasons; not to forget the 3 hour games watching pitchers trying to pick off runners almost standing on the bag, the sheer boredom of all the delay and downtime, the whiney players, and the ridiculous attitudes of the coaches.

Then there are people like me, who find it appalling that umpires are expected to give up every inch of individualism, that I would be "worried" about not having the lineup card in the wrong place, etc.

It insulting to me for you to think I'm less professional than you because I can choose a mask color or have a big silver New Balance "N" on my shoes or because I point to the side when calling strikes. I dress the way I can in my sport, but my pants are always pressed, my shoes shined (I jumped on and right off the patent leather brigade), my uniform cleaned.

And how about my strike zone, my mechanics, my hustle, my rules knowledge, my demeanor, and my ability to handle situations?

Personally, I think softball umpires worry too much about things completely irrelevant to the quality of actual umpiring, but I'm not the one putting a group's professionalism down here, just noting some differences and wondering why the groups are so different.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Then there are people like me, who find it appalling that umpires are expected to give up every inch of individualism, that I would be "worried" about not having the lineup card in the wrong place, etc.

Ever been in the military, Rich?

Speaking ASA, a part of being an umpire is appearance. Yes, in your game, I'm sure your a cleaned and pressed with the best of them, but umpires in non-matching uniforms and equipment on the same field just doesn't look right to many, including me. I started in baseball at 14 and left what little I was doing at the time at 36.

Much of the difference is we all belong to a single, nationwide organization. When we walk on the field, part of the key is for the teams to not know the difference between umpires. ASA prefers a uniform presentation and I believe it actually helps sell the umpire's image.

Many baseball umpires "think" we are robotic in our signals. We are not. We all use the same base, but there every umpire has their own little character included in many calls. Many may not notice because you haven't been through some of the training we have. That is another point. Our training is based nationwide. The UICs are trained to train and take the tools and methods back to our local associations and train others. Unlike our local baseball brethren, we don't just slide a tape in the VCR for the trainees. I'm sure that is not done everywhere, but everywhere in baseball does not have the national-based support group an ASA umpire does.

One of the best compliments I've received was at the Men's A Industrial National Championship. Halfway through the game, a coach came up to the PU and myself and said, "you guys must be local and work together all the time." When asked what gave him that impression, he responded, "well, you are always in position, you are not getting into the other guys area and you barely speak to each other." He was shocked to find out that the PU and myself had just met each other about an hour before the game and we really never got a chance to talk things over with the guy working 3rd because he was just moved to this game off another field.

Our training and uniformity is what allows this impression and better yet, to actually work a game with a complete stranger and do it well. And I think you would agree that is a good thing.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Ever been in the military, Rich?


Our training and uniformity is what allows this impression and better yet, to actually work a game with a complete stranger and do it well. And I think you would agree that is a good thing.

I agree also...as a newbie I work towards looking and acting like any umpire i perceive to be professional and competent, not only in making calls but in appearance. as far as I have been trained (clinic'ed) the only latitude we have in FED, ASA and USFA ball regarding personalism is during a non-swinging, non-dropped third strike call. and have been told countless times that being "unique" on the field just draws attention to yourself and that is a big no-no.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

I agree also...as a newbie I work towards looking and acting like any umpire i perceive to be professional and competent, not only in making calls but in appearance. as far as I have been trained (clinic'ed) the only latitude we have in FED, ASA and USFA ball regarding personalism is during a non-swinging, non-dropped third strike call. and have been told countless times that being "unique" on the field just draws attention to yourself and that is a big no-no.

You believe that because that's what's been taught to you. It doesn't make it inherently correct.

I prefer this quote, myself:

"One of the really wrong theories about officiating is that a good official is one you never notice. The umpire who made that statement was probably a real poor official who tried to get his paycheck and hide behind his partners and stay out of trouble all his life. Control of the ballgame is the difference between umpires that show up for the players and the managers." -

Umpire Bruce Froemming

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

One of the best compliments I've received was at the Men's A Industrial National Championship. Halfway through the game, a coach came up to the PU and myself and said, "you guys must be local and work together all the time." When asked what gave him that impression, he responded, "well, you are always in position, you are not getting into the other guys area and you barely speak to each other." He was shocked to find out that the PU and myself had just met each other about an hour before the game and we really never got a chance to talk things over with the guy working 3rd because he was just moved to this game off another field.

Our training and uniformity is what allows this impression and better yet, to actually work a game with a complete stranger and do it well. And I think you would agree that is a good thing.

Good umpires in baseball can do the same just as easily. I worked a college conference tournament this year with guys I'd never met until that day. We worked CCA mechanics, 3-person, and had an abbreviated pregame and everything was covered correctly. We didn't talk to each other during the games at all, if I remember correctly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are good and bad baseball and softball umpires out there, probably equally on both sides. I try to learn from good umpires no matter the sport. I shake my head at bad umpires, regardless the sport and remind myself to pack it in before it ever just becomes a paycheck.

I gotta get back to the ball bag argument on the other board now

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

...A sport where the uniform isn't expected to be "uniform". A game where coaches don't expect the professionalism of their umpires to be displayed by their uniform, equipment, or mechanics. ...

Originally Posted by RichMSN

...It insulting to me for you to think I'm less professional than you because I can choose a mask color or have a big silver New Balance "N" on my shoes or because I point to the side when calling strikes.....

I would imagine someone who struggles with reading comprehension would be insulted a lot.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Personally, I think softball umpires worry too much about things completely irrelevant to the quality of actual umpiring...

After reading the nine-page, 125-response thread over on the Baseball Board, regarding which color of ball bag looks the best, you might surmise that baseball umpires suffer from the same affliction.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BretMan

After reading the nine-page, 125-response thread over on the Baseball Board, regarding which color of ball bag looks the best, you might surmise that baseball umpires suffer from the same affliction.

Not same, but related. I guess it would be easier if some national association told us what to wear, but it wouldn't be as much fun.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

White pads in the mask, too?

I use a lineup card holder. someone "borrowed" my holder I got at my last national, so for a time I used one of those handy insurance card/registration things for your car. A little large...in fact due to a misunderstanding it got me in a lot of hot water...but it served its purpose.

Here's a story I'd like to hear

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

Here's a story I'd like to hear

TC,
If BK's car insurance holder is like mine, It's bright red and larger than a lineup card holder. I don't think Mike would care, but I know a who lot of others that I think would care & would make a notation.