Dead Ball Advancement

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I agree with you that the rule abandons common sense.

If the fielder remained in play and as the runner was retreating to first base the ball is overthrown out of play, the runner gets third---2 bases.
In this case a one base award puts the runner at the same place.

First ... this is the same base awarded in the initial situation. 3rd base on both.

Second, your statement is not true at all if the runner is still past 2nd base when the throw toward first base is released. If he is ... he gets home. The direction he's running is irrelevant.

[NCASAUmp]

Basically, jimpiano, a fielder unintentionally carrying a live ball into dead ball territory (such as in the OP you described) is a small "oops." One base from base last touched.

A fielder throwing poorly is a big "oops." Two bases from base last touched when the ball was released. Keep in mind I'm saying this with a little "tongue in cheek."

I don't know ASA's rationale behind every rule, and I frankly have too many things going on with work right now to ponder it. So in the end, I call what they give me for a ruleset.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Basically, jimpiano, a fielder unintentionally carrying a live ball into dead ball territory (such as in the OP you described) is a small "oops." One base from base last touched.

A fielder throwing poorly is a big "oops." Two bases from base last touched when the ball was released. Keep in mind I'm saying this with a little "tongue in cheek."

I don't know ASA's rationale behind every rule, and I frankly have too many things going on with work right now to ponder it. So in the end, I call what they give me for a ruleset.

And after checking with my UIC any runner in the situation of the OP will be given second base, assuming the base running requirements are met.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

And after checking with my UIC any runner in the situation of the OP will be given second base, assuming the base running requirements are met.

and your UIC is WRONG.....

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

and your UIC is WRONG.....

Yep, s/he sure is. Hopefully, this is a local UIC, not a state/metro/regional.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

And after checking with my UIC any runner in the situation of the OP will be given second base, assuming the base running requirements are met.

Let me know who your UIC might be, and I'll be sure and put your UIC in touch with the appropriate Regional UIC, who will be happy to conduct a small a$$ chewing, er, I mean clinic, to correct this error.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

And after checking with my UIC any runner in the situation of the OP will be given second base, assuming the base running requirements are met.

So ... your UIC intentionally ignores the rulebook? Or is he just unaware of the rule? Sad in either case, really.

[Dakota]

That RS is NOT making a distinction between a touched and passed-but-not-touched base. It is talking about a base to which the runner is not legally entitled. Before misinterpreting an RS, try reading the actual rule about a touched base.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Dakota

That RS is NOT making a distinction between a touched and passed-but-not-touched base. It is talking about a base to which the runner is not legally entitled. Before misinterpreting an RS, try reading the actual rule about a touched base.

Rule Supplement # 27 and Rule 8-6-j talk about the awarding of bases when a player carries the ball, intenionally or not, into real or imaginary dead ball territory.

The decision to award a base or bases, depending upon intent, is based on pretty clear language:....(T)he base award is based on the last base legally touched at the time the ball became dead.

The original post deals only with this rule and rule supplement #27 makes it clear that the last base touched means the last legal base touched.

[greymule]

As others have noted, ASA awards bases from the runner's position at the time of the release of the throw or, in the case of the OP, the time the fielder entered DBT, regardless of any obligation to retouch a base left too soon.

NCAA softball is different; it follows OBR. The award in the OP would be 3B, but once the runner returns to retag 1B, the award is changed to 2B. (There is long and complicated justification for this; ASA simplifies things.) Overthrows are treated similarly: if a runner who has left 1B too soon is between 2B and 3B when the fielder releases a throw that goes into DBT, the award is home, but if the runner returns to retouch 1B, the award is changed to 3B.

Don't know about Fed.

These codes differ on what they consider to be the "last base legally touched," just as they differ on what constitutes the runner "closest to home."