From the baseball board....

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Oh, we're not starting this again.

Actually, our org assigns us to 3 games per night. I usually do games 1 and 3 behind the plate, and game 2 on the bases. So yes, my ball bag is with me, but I usually remember to take it off when I'm BU. Sometimes I forget, but hey... it's only rec ball. :P

AAACK... you weren't kidding. Sorry.

Surely you take off your plate gear between games, right? Ditch the ball bag at the same time.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Surely you take off your plate gear between games, right? Ditch the ball bag at the same time.

I'm pretty sure NCASAUmp has stated in the past that all he does is SP, so I don't think he has any 'other' gear other than a ball bag.

[JEL]

Originally Posted by Andy

The guys that play with the little balls are on our case.....

NCAA Softball Umpires

Haven't read the thread, may later but really don't care!

The wide stance is one I fought a while. It just can't be done! Jim Craig had me in such a wide stance at a clinic one year I thought I would never get up! Dick Gayler "dinged" me at Nationals saying I needed to be wider. I was also hit at HS state and told to go wider. Man, were those guys wrong, until I really tried to widen out. There is no way (thought I) with my bad knees, back, and other parts I could ever go more than about 3' or so. I am now up to over a 5' spread, and must admit---Jim, Dick and others knew what they were talkng about!

The wide stance allows an easy "drop to set" that doesn't strain my knees and back as bad as they used to be. I can keep my back straighter than I used to thus I am seeing the track of the ball better, not looking at an angle. I feel my consistency is much better with this type of stance. You might feel a bit "exposed" in this stance, but one leg is behind the catcher, and the other behind the batter. I haven't been hit as much it seems. I have also learned to shift to one leg or the other and can still get up without wobbling. It takes some practice.

The strke is called while down, I am a loudmouth, most players can hear the vocal, (strike) as well as the dugouts. I do give the hammer when up, but still in the "spread". It seems to go smoothly.

I don't care for the navy britches either, but would wear pink if that was the official uni! Just no royal blue polyesther shorts and white knee socks! (I saw that locally this week!).

I don't even own a "clicker", but I do use an indicator at all positions, even when I have worked a 6 man crew. I also keep a scorecard in the field and record CR's and pitching/catching changes. You never know when the PU may need your assistance, or suppose he were to go down? I have as much game inf as possible recorded. The "gripe" I've heard from some is that after a play, it seems all umpires tend to immediately bring the indicator up, and take their eyes off the field. That may be, but if used correctly, the indicator shouldn't be noticeable.

I also carry and use a plate brush in the field!


I use these same basics when I am playing with the "little balls" (except I don't sweep the rubber, may sweep a base every now and then) and have been evaluated with no negatives, and have also worked deep into HS state finals.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Oh, we're not starting this again.

Actually, our org assigns us to 3 games per night. I usually do games 1 and 3 behind the plate, and game 2 on the bases. So yes, my ball bag is with me, but I usually remember to take it off when I'm BU. Sometimes I forget, but hey... it's only rec ball. :P

There are only two reasons for you to keep your ball bag on while BU...
1. The first pitch of game 2 is 1 min after the last out of game 1.
2. The park has so little parking that the umpires take a shuttle bus to the field.

Otherwise, ditch the ball bag on the bases.

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Sometimes I forget, but hey... it's only rec ball.

Hence the need for the indicator as BU I suppose....

[mcrowder]

Jel - were you calling a tournament this weekend? In Texas? What you describes sounds exactly like the professionalism exhibited by one of my partners over the weekend.

[ukumpire]

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...d=1#post415141

[JEL]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Jel - were you calling a tournament this weekend? In Texas? What you describes sounds exactly like the professionalism exhibited by one of my partners over the weekend.

That wasn't me I don't think. I can't remember back that far (that's why I carry an indicator on the field!)

Your partner had probably run into JIm, Dick, or one of the other guy's.

[jkumpire]

I umpire BB, though last week I worked an ASA FP tournament for an evening.

And I worked your proscribed mechanics for strikes/outs/etc. I'm sorry, I think they look awful. If I thought they had a purpose to them, like slowing down people's calls so they are sure they have them right it's one thing. But, a big showy out call on a routine ground ball with the hammer over your head is showing up the runner, IMO. So is the hammer above the head on a swinging strike.

I had some SB guys in my local HS association come back to our mixed SB/BB group from a national ASA clinic, and they learned some things about plate stance I thought were no real good either. As another poster put it, the worst thing they cam back with was too wide a plate stance. As wide as they teach, you are always going to be slow to react on plays because you're not balanced and your center of gravity is not centered under your body. Also, because your legs are so spread, you have to bring your feet closer together to move your body, and that split second of time can mean you are late with being able to get into a position to make a call.

I understand that if you want to do big games, ASA and NCAA will enforce its mechanics, period. It is disappointing that they feel they have to control umpires in that way. Most great umpires are not showy, in either BB or SB. They should be able to use any body language (big or small) to sell the banger or tough call, and use as little body language as needed on the easy routine plays. I look at what I see on TV, and the big dog SB umps are being forced to use body language that does not communicate well. It looks, and feels forced, not smooth and natural.

Not everyone whoi does BB is an MLB follower, I wish the higher ups in ASA and NCAA SB saw that too.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

I umpire BB, though last week I worked an ASA FP tournament for an evening.

And I worked your proscribed mechanics for strikes/outs/etc. I'm sorry, I think they look awful. If I thought they had a purpose to them, like slowing down people's calls so they are sure they have them right it's one thing. But, a big showy out call on a routine ground ball with the hammer over your head is showing up the runner, IMO. So is the hammer above the head on a swinging strike.

Before criticizing,........ If it's a hammer, is should be over your head so the other players and fans can see it. After all, the mechanics are for them, not the guy standing next to you. Also, if you check the proper mechanics in the ASA umpire manual, you will see the steps for slowing down the umpire.

An overhand on a routine out is showboating and uncalled for assuming it was a routing out.

I had some SB guys in my local HS association come back to our mixed SB/BB group from a national ASA clinic, and they learned some things about plate stance I thought were no real good either. As another poster put it, the worst thing they cam back with was too wide a plate stance. As wide as they teach, you are always going to be slow to react on plays because you're not balanced and your center of gravity is not centered under your body. Also, because your legs are so spread, you have to bring your feet closer together to move your body, and that split second of time can mean you are late with being able to get into a position to make a call.

Then you fellow umpires did not understand what was being taught or the instructor was trying to challenge people to give it a shot. I have never seen an instructor at a school "force" a position on an umpire that the individual could not handle. Does it take work and practice? Sure, just like anything else. Different people are different sizes, so this isn't a "one-size-fits-all" mechanic and everyone knows that. BTW, when moving to a wider stance, umpires are told to NOT place themselves so wide it is difficult to recover.

I understand that if you want to do big games, ASA and NCAA will enforce its mechanics, period. It is disappointing that they feel they have to control umpires in that way. Most great umpires are not showy, in either BB or SB. They should be able to use any body language (big or small) to sell the banger or tough call, and use as little body language as needed on the easy routine plays. I look at what I see on TV, and the big dog SB umps are being forced to use body language that does not communicate well. It looks, and feels forced, not smooth and natural. Not everyone whoi does BB is an MLB follower, I wish the higher ups in ASA and NCAA SB saw that too.

You know, the only time I've noticed similarity among the umpires working the NCAA's is the routine out. They all have their own overhand or punch, safe, sell safe and their own third strike signal. I have worked the highest level of ASA and a couple of World Cups (SP) and I can tell you from experience that every umpire has their own characteristics, even on the routine calls. Maybe you don't notice is because you are not familiar with it. I am and do.

You can drop the "gotta do it to get the big games" whine because it just isn't so.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

AAACK... you weren't kidding. Sorry.

Surely you take off your plate gear between games, right? Ditch the ball bag at the same time.

Plate gear? I don't wear any.

[Dakota]

re: plate gear (ball bags, etc.) as BU.

I was watching a tournament final on Sunday afternoon. It was double elim, and the losers bracket team won the first, so there was an if game. Same crew did both, but swapped duties.

In the second game, the BU (PU first game) took off his plate gear (including the ball bag) except for the chest protector. The PU (BU first game) put on NO plate gear, except for the ball bag. So we had a PU with no gear and a BU wearing a chest protector. Now THAT looked odd.

Indicators as BU? Only those who need something to criticize in order to feel superior (re: small ball board thread) worry about it. If there is anything at all to criticize about the indicator on the field it is looking at it. If you have to look at it to make sure it is correct, you're not paying attention - and that is what you need to work on.

[Skahtboi]

I, personally, am a fan of a uniform set of signals. Those who wish to deviate and use such things as a double fist pump or turn from the field of play to make their called strike three sell are often showboaters looking to be the center of attention on the field, rather than officiate games. Mechanics are meant to communicate, nothing more. As anyone who understands effective communication can tell you, short and concise is the best way. Uniform mechanics achieve this. Often, people who fight this trend in umpring are those desiring to mask their laziness as a "personal mechanic," or those I have already mentioned, the showboaters.

Originally Posted by jimpiano

It takes about an hour for a NCAA/ASA plate umpire to call a strike(following book guidelines) and the mechanic is about as sophisticated as little league.They use the same strike call whether it is a called strike or the batter swings...and the strikeout call is the same as a BU's sell out. It gives the impression that to work the big games you better follow the cookie cutter pictures.

If you want to work as an umpire, you should adhere to the prescribed mechanic, period. And for your information, the NCAA UIP does not mandate any prescribed mechanic for a called strike three. Also, sells in the NCAA ranks do vary, and I have seen a couple of different styles while watching this tournament. As for a swinging or called strike, why should the signal be any different? It is still a strike, no matter what. The only difference should be that you don't do a verbal on a swinging strike.

And what is with BU's in the playoffs carrying the clickers in their hands?

NCAA, NFHS, ASA all require the BU to have an indicator with them in the field. If you don't, and you are working for any of these organizations, then you are failing to do what you are being paid for.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

NCAA, NFHS, ASA all require the BU to have an indicator with them in the field. If you don't, and you are working for any of these organizations, then you are failing to do what you are being paid for.

And personally, I think the BU carrying an indicator should be mandatory (which is another reason why I bring a spare for my partner, should he/she need one). There have been times when umpires, being human, have brain farts and slip up on the count. A player gets injured fielding a foul ball and time is needed to attend to them. A coach calls time during an at bat. We're human, and when these things suddenly happen, we sometimes forget to nudge that wheel another notch. It happens. It shouldn't, but it does. I, personally, want to be able to give the count back to the PU (or F4) without any hesitation if I am asked.

Having an indicator in my hand also keeps me focused on the game, but that's just me, that's just one of my things.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

And personally, I think the BU carrying an indicator should be mandatory (which is another reason why I bring a spare for my partner, should he/she need one). There have been times when umpires, being human, have brain farts and slip up on the count. A player gets injured fielding a foul ball and time is needed to attend to them. A coach calls time during an at bat. We're human, and when these things suddenly happen, we sometimes forget to nudge that wheel another notch. It happens. It shouldn't, but it does. I, personally, want to be able to give the count back to the PU (or F4) without any hesitation if I am asked.

Having an indicator in my hand also keeps me focused on the game, but that's just me, that's just one of my things.

I don't carry an indicat-a-clicker on the bases because its the PU's job to "call and count all balls and strikes..." not the BU's.

(From 2007 NCAA Softball Rules, 15-3(d) ).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

I don't carry an indicat-a-clicker on the bases because its the PU's job to "call and count all balls and strikes..." not the BU's.

(From 2007 NCAA Softball Rules, 15-3(d) ).

So what happens if your partner looses the count? Say f*** you, it's your problem, not mine.

An indicator is a tool of the trade. The crew on the field is a unit. One fails, the crew fails.

And what do you call an indicator that doesn't "click", that "wheely thing"?