From the baseball board....

[jimpiano]

I carry my clicker in my pocket and use it to keep track of outs. I know the count in memory.

Blue pants are not only ugly but a signal the ASA is stuck in the past.

As for the strike call that lasts an eternity it matters not that the verbal call is immediate. The ASA clinics emphasize that the ASA approved signals are to "make sure the fans" understand the call. The fans are the last to know.

Visual and audible strike calls need not be separate

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And what do you call an indicator that doesn't "click", that "wheely thing"?

Brokeded



.....................

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by LMan

...fair/foul, catch/no catch.

Pre-pitch...

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Before criticizing,........ If it's a hammer, is should be over your head so the other players and fans can see it. After all, the mechanics are for them, not the guy standing next to you. Also, if you check the proper mechanics in the ASA umpire manual, you will see the steps for slowing down the umpire.

Thought #1, A hammer does not have to be over your head so other players and fans can see it. How many times in a BB game have you seen confusion about whether the umpire calls a person out or safe, esp on plays that are not close?

Thought #2: I am very familiar with the ASA manual, and the p[oints for slowing down umpires has utility for othert sports too.

An overhand on a routine out is showboating and uncalled for assuming it was a routing out.

Thought #3: I am lost as to what an overhand is, I assume it is a big ringup. I'm not saying a ringup is needed on obvious plays, we all know that. I think the hammer is too showy, when a simple out sign will do.


Then you fellow umpires did not understand what was being taught or the instructor was trying to challenge people to give it a shot. I have never seen an instructor at a school "force" a position on an umpire that the individual could not handle. Does it take work and practice? Sure, just like anything else. Different people are different sizes, so this isn't a "one-size-fits-all" mechanic and everyone knows that. BTW, when moving to a wider stance, umpires are told to NOT place themselves so wide it is difficult to recover.

Thought #4, there were other things too I was not crazy with too, and I won't condemn an instructor for what a student misunderstands or gets wrong. All I am saying is that they came home with stuff I am not sure works well.

You know, the only time I've noticed similarity among the umpires working the NCAA's is the routine out. They all have their own overhand or punch, safe, sell safe and their own third strike signal. I have worked the highest level of ASA and a couple of World Cups (SP) and I can tell you from experience that every umpire has their own characteristics, even on the routine calls. Maybe you don't notice is because you are not familiar with it. I am and do.

Thought #5, Okay fine, your point is well-taken, my experince is limited. But I do know from what I hear, see, and read on this and other boards that there is more enforced uniformity on mechanics in SB than BB. If I am wrong, I withdraw the comment. Watching the NCAA SB stuff on ESPN it sure looks to me like they are close to the same mechanically, all of them.

You can drop the "gotta do it to get the big games" whine because it just isn't so.

Thought #6 I have my share of big games, so I don't whine about anything thank you. If I get too old for BB and decide to do SB, I'll let my performance determine the level of games I work.

I do know I have set in Firestone Stadium in Akron for pro SB games, seen a bunch of College SB games in many places, and they look the same to me mechanically. And I remember whne I was doing a lot ofd ASA SB, I know of times when umpires were not allowed to work because they did not have the original ElBecho shirt on. Even though the no-EB shirt looked exactly the same, and was approved by the Postal Service for their uniforms, the umpire was sent home. From what I see things have not changed much since I was doing ASA FP in the early-mid 1980's.

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

I umpire BB, though last week I worked an ASA FP tournament for an evening.

And I worked your proscribed mechanics for strikes/outs/etc. I'm sorry, I think they look awful. If I thought they had a purpose to them, like slowing down people's calls so they are sure they have them right it's one thing. But, a big showy out call on a routine ground ball with the hammer over your head is showing up the runner, IMO. So is the hammer above the head on a swinging strike.

I had some SB guys in my local HS association come back to our mixed SB/BB group from a national ASA clinic, and they learned some things about plate stance I thought were no real good either. As another poster put it, the worst thing they cam back with was too wide a plate stance. As wide as they teach, you are always going to be slow to react on plays because you're not balanced and your center of gravity is not centered under your body. Also, because your legs are so spread, you have to bring your feet closer together to move your body, and that split second of time can mean you are late with being able to get into a position to make a call.

I understand that if you want to do big games, ASA and NCAA will enforce its mechanics, period. It is disappointing that they feel they have to control umpires in that way. Most great umpires are not showy, in either BB or SB. They should be able to use any body language (big or small) to sell the banger or tough call, and use as little body language as needed on the easy routine plays. I look at what I see on TV, and the big dog SB umps are being forced to use body language that does not communicate well. It looks, and feels forced, not smooth and natural.

Not everyone whoi does BB is an MLB follower, I wish the higher ups in ASA and NCAA SB saw that too.

They arent MLB followers.. I would term them MLB Umpire Groupies (especially many on this board who can even name the crews, their number, and underwear size and lord knows what else)



But many points are well taken.. If you are in the stands and the batter and swung and missed and you are sitting wondering what the umpire called.. not much hope for you.

For a swinging strike .. ASA prescribes that thou shalt stand up, thou shalt not move thou's head whilst thou puts your left hand at your belt and hammer with your right hand..

I do it, I get paid to do it, they want it.. and as the association for whom I voluntarily work certainly have that right..

but its still lame.

BUT>....

The little point strike by MLB umps while looking who knows where is old hat and equally lame.. but at least its voluntary to look so horrible calling a strike.. as opposed to forced to look horrible.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Baseball's BU's pre-pitch responsibilities:
1) Watch for a balk.
2) Um...
3) Give the GLM signal where appropriate.

We're supposed to watch for balks?!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Thought #1, A hammer does not have to be over your head so other players and fans can see it. How many times in a BB game have you seen confusion about whether the umpire calls a person out or safe, esp on plays that are not close?

Yes, it can be confusing, even on television when the umpire simply raises a fist in front of his body. And again, the signals are not there to make the umpire look stylish, the signals are for the fans and remote players, why do you seem to be offended by that point. If you are getting paid to do that job, do it.


Thought #2: I am very familiar with the ASA manual, and the points for slowing down umpires has utility for other sports too.

So what's your complaint. You were the one who suggested that you could understand if part of the mechanic was to slow one down.


Thought #3: I am lost as to what an overhand is, I assume it is a big ringup. I'm not saying a ringup is needed on obvious plays, we all know that. I think the hammer is too showy, when a simple out sign will do.


But you just told us you are familiar with the ASA manual! Make up your mind. And, if you knew the ASA manual, you would also know that the hammer IS the simple out sign.



Thought #4, there were other things too I was not crazy with too, and I won't condemn an instructor for what a student misunderstands or gets wrong. All I am saying is that they came home with stuff I am not sure works well.

A sad part of ASA's local programs is that many have given up on local/State/Metro schools. That means that many umpires go to a National School with limited knowledge. Did your fellow umpires attend any previous schools which would provide them with the basis for attending a NS?


Thought #5, Okay fine, your point is well-taken, my experince is limited. But I do know from what I hear, see, and read on this and other boards that there is more enforced uniformity on mechanics in SB than BB.

No argument.

If I am wrong, I withdraw the comment. Watching the NCAA SB stuff on ESPN it sure looks to me like they are close to the same mechanically, all of them.

Maybe because you are comparing them to what you think they should be, not what they are taught. Besides, what is wrong with people working the same game in the same uniform giving the same signs?

There are many of us, on this board and elsewhere, that have been complimented by teams and fans for our professionalism and ability to work as a team when actually, we may have only met each other 20 minutes before the game.

If you don't care for that, it's okay. You are free to work where you can do it the way you want. That's fine be me, because that's your business. However, you cannot argue with the point that when you do any job, any where, you do it in the manner prescribed by those running the show.

Thought #6 I have my share of big games, so I don't whine about anything thank you. If I get too old for BB and decide to do SB, I'll let my performance determine the level of games I work.

Go back and check the number of infrequent posters here and on the baseball board that make the reference. To me, that is a whine for those who seem to need an excuse for bad mouthing others. Or is it an excuse for making themselves feel better because they do not have the opportunity to get the national and international games? Most of the posters on here don't go over to the baseball board and mock the manner in which you do things, so why does it seem important for so many to do that to us?

BTW, I worked the little ball for 22 years, mostly youth to JUCO and some as a gypsy. I left the game at the ripe age of 36 because I was bored to tears. There was not challenge. Don't get me wrong, FP softball tends to bore me at times which is why I concentrate on SP. There is more action in two innings of SP ball than what you may see in an entire baseball game.

And let me break some news to you. To work softball, an umpire needs to be in the same, if not better, physical shape as anyone needs to do baseball. If you don't believe it, you are only fooling yourself.

And I remember whne I was doing a lot ofd ASA SB, I know of times when umpires were not allowed to work because they did not have the original ElBecho shirt on. Even though the no-EB shirt looked exactly the same, and was approved by the Postal Service for their uniforms, the umpire was sent home. From what I see things have not changed much since I was doing ASA FP in the early-mid 1980's.

It is called a UNIFORM for a reason. Check out definition at www.m-w.com


[

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

I don't carry an indicat-a-clicker on the bases because its the PU's job to "call and count all balls and strikes..." not the BU's.

(From 2007 NCAA Softball Rules, 15-3(d) ).

From the 2007 NCAA Umpire Manual(which I am sure you must not own if you don't follow its' guidelines):

"Ball/Strike indicator-must be used on plate and bases."

That's a pretty simple directive.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Welpe

We're supposed to watch for balks?!

If you work baseball, yeah.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

From the 2007 NCAA Umpire Manual(which I am sure you must not own if you don't follow its' guidelines):

"Ball/Strike indicator-must be used on plate and bases."

That's a pretty simple directive.

I don't own one because I don't work Softball.

As far as baseball, my NCAA assignor frowns on carrying one while a BU.

Also, to make the statement that you need to be in better shape to work softball than baseball... I disagree. I know lots of SP umpires who work softball because they can no longer keep up on the big diamond, so that will never hold water with me...

[wadeintothem]

The main difference between baseball and softball...

THe money and enjoyment of working a lot.

I worked 17 games memorial day weekend 14 games last weekend and will work around 12 this upcoming weekend...

just cant do that with baseball. When I work Amer legion which starts next week.. I'll work 1 game on a weeknight.. maybe 2 games a week.

big whup.

Wont do the little league thing (which is over anyway)..

Softball will go through fall ball.

Long after "i dont do softball" baseball umpires are no longer working and spending their time googling up their favorite MLB umpires to pine for .. I'm still working A LOT of games.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And let me break some news to you. To work softball, an umpire needs to be in the same, if not better, physical shape as anyone needs to do baseball. If you don't believe it, you are only fooling yourself.

I respect a lot of what you write, but there's no way that this is true. Consider the baseball umpire who:

(1) has to take a batter-runner to second or third because the base umpire went out. Plate umpire, of course.

(2) has to cover third on a first-to-third, especially on a hit-and-run. Plate umpire, of course.

(3) has to pivot into the diamond with 90 foot bases and college/pro athletes and having to pivot in front of them. Base umpire, of course.

I work 60-foot bases during Little League tournament season. We work behind the runners, just like softball umpires do. It feels like I am anywhere I need to be in about 5 steps.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I'd rather work 1 good baseball game than 3 softball games. Others feel differently. Whoopee.

Now, I did like working FP when I had decent pitching and fielding. I felt my reflexes had to be a bit better when working the bases, for certain. But I just didn't get enough good pitching and I'd rather work baseball with mediocre pitching than softball with mediocre pitching.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

Also, to make the statement that you need to be in better shape to work softball than baseball... I disagree. I know lots of SP umpires who work softball because they can no longer keep up on the big diamond, so that will never hold water with me...

I never made that statement.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I respect a lot of what you write, but there's no way that this is true. Consider the baseball umpire who:

(1) has to take a batter-runner to second or third because the base umpire went out. Plate umpire, of course.

(2) has to cover third on a first-to-third, especially on a hit-and-run. Plate umpire, of course.

(3) has to pivot into the diamond with 90 foot bases and college/pro athletes and having to pivot in front of them. Base umpire, of course.

I work 60-foot bases during Little League tournament season. We work behind the runners, just like softball umpires do. It feels like I am anywhere I need to be in about 5 steps.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I'd rather work 1 good baseball game than 3 softball games. Others feel differently. Whoopee.

Now, I did like working FP when I had decent pitching and fielding. I felt my reflexes had to be a bit better when working the bases, for certain. But I just didn't get enough good pitching and I'd rather work baseball with mediocre pitching than softball with mediocre pitching.

Yeah, but you only gotta do that for 1 maybe two games.. with a LOT of downtime between plays while you pretend standing there watching pick off attempts is tiring.

Work softball games for 12 hours straight 3 days in a row in Central Cal heat then post you need to be in better shape for baseball because you have to run a few feet farther for a play at 3B.

Also.. as to mediocre.. earn some stripes and work mens or 18G.. then you see great ball.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Yeah, but you only gotta do that for 1 maybe two games.. with a LOT of downtime between plays while you pretend standing there watching pick off attempts is tiring.

Work softball games for 12 hours straight 3 days in a row in Central Cal heat then post you need to be in better shape for baseball because you have to run a few feet farther for a play at 3B.

Also.. as to mediocre.. earn some stripes and work mens or 18G.. then you see great ball.

I would never, never work 12 hours. But that has nothing to do with my conditioning. I was scheduled to work an NCAA D3 conference tourney this season and I would've had to work 3 9-inning games if we needed to play the "if" game. That would be my absolute limit these days.

I'd prefer working 1 game a day, personally. Again, nothing to do with conditioning, but rather the balance I want in my life.