From the baseball board....

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And what do you call an indicator that doesn't "click", that "wheely thing"?

I call it "something I need to break open (again), nudge the prongs upwards (again), and put back together (AGAIN!)."

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

So what happens if your partner looses the count? Say f*** you, it's your problem, not mine."?

No... I simply give him the count... you see my memory span is larger than 1 min. I haven't carried the "wheely thing" as BU for more that 5 years, and have yet to lose the count. I suppose some concentration is needed, but that's fine with me, I like to stay in the game.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

I don't carry an indicat-a-clicker on the bases because its the PU's job to "call and count all balls and strikes..." not the BU's.

(From 2007 NCAA Softball Rules, 15-3(d) ).

Equipment:
• Black mask and harness. Black or tan pads (black is preferred). Black throat protector if
not built into the mask. Avoid visible advertising if possible.
• All black mask/helmet – a hat must be worn with a helmet (wearing a helmet is discouraged
as it tends to draw attention to the umpire)
• Ball/strike indicator – must be used on plate and bases
• Brush – every umpire must carry one

-- NCAA Softball Umpire Manual

[LMan]

• All black mask/helmet – a hat must be worn with a helmet (wearing a helmet is discouraged
as it tends to draw attention to the umpire)

The authors must be from Alabama.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Dakota

-- NCAA Softball Umpire Manual

Hmmm... what's the brush for on the bases?

[Steve M]

Does anybody really care what those with little balls think about softball?

In some ways, the games are very similar, but they're very different in a number of other ways.
I see a lot more of the "out, sh!t, safe" calls in that game as many of them don't have what a softball ump would call great timing - they're too fast.
Didn't we see & hear about one of the major leaguers hosing an uncaught 3rd strike because they don't - or didn't - want to go outside of their own area of responsibility.
On the other hand, I see the baseball folks tolerating a whole lot less garbage from coaches & players before tossing.

One sport's officials can nit-pick another sport's officials all they want. The fact is these are different games with different expectations and different ways of doing things. I don't give a rat's a$$ what a baseball ump thinks of a softball ump's ways of officiating a softball game - the baseball guy's opinion is as completely irrelevant as a softball ump's opinion of a baseball ump's ways of doing things.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

No... I simply give him the count... you see my memory span is larger than 1 min. I haven't carried the "wheely thing" as BU for more that 5 years, and have yet to lose the count. I suppose some concentration is needed, but that's fine with me, I like to stay in the game.

So, prescribed mechanics aside, what is so terrible about a BU who is holding an indicator? In my opinion, Mike hit the nail on the head - on the field, we are a team, and we must back each other up when we can. I'm glad that your memory is as good as you say, but it's totally plausible that something may happen where your memory will not be enough. We're human.

Originally Posted by ctblu40

I don't carry an indicat-a-clicker on the bases because its the PU's job to "call and count all balls and strikes..." not the BU's.

By that same logic, BU should never ask PU for help if F3 pulls their foot. Again, we're a team. We can't see everything, we can't know everything, we can't remember everything. The indicator, like a brush or bat ring, is one more tool to be used at our disposal to assist in this process.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

Hmmm... what's the brush for on the bases?

BU cleans the pitcher's plate in ASA. Can't speak with any authority on NCAA, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were part of their mechanics.

[Az.Ump]

Form the 2007 NCAA Umpires Manual.

Equipment:
• Black mask and harness. Black or tan pads (black is preferred). Black throat protector if
not built into the mask. Avoid visible advertising if possible.
• All black mask/helmet – a hat must be worn with a helmet (wearing a helmet is discouraged
as it tends to draw attention to the umpire)
• Ball/strike indicator – must be used on plate and bases
• Brush – every umpire must carry one
• Navy blue or heather gray ball bag with no insignias
• Pen or pencil
• Bat Ring

• Between inning mechanics
— Base umpires position is in the grass, 10-15 feet from the line, fronting the plate
— Plate umpire is 8-10 feet from the plate, opposite the team coming to bat
— Pitcher’s plate is swept, only if needed, using the following priority system:
•• The remaining umpire on the infield;
•• The umpire who ends the inning in the middle of the diamond;
•• 3B umpire if both umpires end the inning on the lines

Paul

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

No... I simply give him the count... you see my memory span is larger than 1 min. I haven't carried the "wheely thing" as BU for more that 5 years, and have yet to lose the count. I suppose some concentration is needed, but that's fine with me, I like to stay in the game.

Maybe it's because you don't have half the issues a BU in softball does. For example, what is the BU's pre-swing responsibilities?

Speaking ASA, and a few others,

In softball, it includes, but is not limited to watching ALL runners remain in contact with the base until the pitch is released, making sure the pitcher's shoulders are square to the plate, both feet are in contact with the pitcher's plate, respond to any count/out inquiries of nearby fielders or base coach, insure the pitcher does not step back off the pitcher's plate during her motion, the pitcher does not leap during the delivery, the pitcher does not replant prior to the release, make sure there is no obstruction when each of the runner's leave the base at the pitcher's release AND THEN you was for a possible check swing among other possible occurances which could happen at the plate.

[mcrowder]

Baseball's BU's pre-pitch responsibilities:
1) Watch for a balk.
2) Um...
3) Give the GLM signal where appropriate.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Maybe it's because you don't have half the issues a BU in softball does. For example, what is the BU's pre-swing responsibilities?

Speaking ASA, and a few others,

In softball, it includes, but is not limited to watching ALL runners remain in contact with the base until the pitch is released, making sure the pitcher's shoulders are square to the plate, both feet are in contact with the pitcher's plate, respond to any count/out inquiries of nearby fielders or base coach, insure the pitcher does not step back off the pitcher's plate during her motion, the pitcher does not leap during the delivery, the pitcher does not replant prior to the release, make sure there is no obstruction when each of the runner's leave the base at the pitcher's release AND THEN you was for a possible check swing among other possible occurances which could happen at the plate.

Baseball-only guy here, although I worked high school and ASA softball 10 or so years ago.

I always enjoy these baseball versus softball threads. Just shows how different the sports and their umpires are.

I have to deal with pickoffs and balks along with some of the other things you mention.

Further, I do not and will not answer requests for the count. The plate umpire keeps the count. If I were to give an incorrect count as the base umpire, it could result in bad things happening. Someone asks, I simply say, "Mike, what's the count." If the plate umpire loses the count, I'm there for him, but that's the only time I get involved in the count. I really don't care what the count is, to be honest, unless it's 3-2, 2 outs and I can ignore the runners moving.

The day I carry an indicator on the bases or a brush on the bases or a bat ring ever will be the day I know hell has truly frozen over.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

3) Give the GLM signal where appropriate.

Actually, this should be first priority. GLM, fair/foul, catch/no catch.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LMan

Actually, this should be first priority. GLM, fair/foul, catch/no catch.

Is GLM the nice way of saying MILF?

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Is GLM the nice way of saying MILF?

Quite so, sir.