Batter delay - ASA

[mcrowder]

Had an odd one in an elimination game Saturday. Partner said he would have done the same thing I did, but maybe he was just being agreeable with a partner he didn't know ... it felt like I could have handled this better.

Home winning 2-1, home batting, 3-4 minutes left in a timed game.

1 out, big hitter comes up, faces her 3B coach, swings 3 times, steps in the box, hand up, digs in and faces pitcher. Not a HORRIBLE delay, but 8-10 seconds ... and identical to her behavior the first time she came to the plate. A couple of times, during the 3 swings facing her coach, I said, "Let's go batter" (just like the first time she batted), and she turned around, got in the box, dug in, and was ready.

However, pitcher is getting increasingly frustrated (almost pouting, stomping around the mound and such) and visitors sideline is getting restless.

2 batters later, 2 outs, 1:20 or so on the clock, 2 runners on. New batter behaving similarly. One difference, if it matters - she did not behave this way her first at bat. Anyway, on the 2nd pitch, she's facing her coach, and I say "Let's go batter" ... no response. 2-3 more seconds, I say a little louder, "Let's GO, batter" - no response. 2 more seconds, I tell pitcher to pitch. As she's winding up to pitch, all of a sudden the batter gets in the box with her hand up - the pitch is coming. It felt VERY unsafe, as the pitcher was throwing bullets and the batter wasn't even looking.

Luckily, this got the point across and she stopped stalling ... and got walked, running out the clock. But I did not like the way this played out. Honestly, I did not feel they were stalling illegally - they weren't tying shoelaces or taking conferences, and until that last batter, while they were definitely in no HURRY, I didn't feel they were crossing the line. It's not potential stalling tactics I want to talk about, unless from this description you'd have done something different. It was the directed pitch that bothered me, from a safety standpoint. The only other time I've ever had to tell a pitcher to pitch because of a batter's delay, the batter never got in the box at all, so there was no issue. This one kind of came up on me unexpectedly.

Thoughts? (PS - sorry so long)

[DaveASA/FED]

I believe you don't have to have the pitcher pitch, simply call a strike on the batter who is not getting into the box. It gets that point across even better and no risk of getting a 1/2 attentive batter hit!

This is a funny thing with timed games. Both teams lollygag around for 4 innings then one team all of the sudden thinks they need that extra inning to do what they have not done all game! I try to keep it moving the whole game, don't go picking buggers but keep them going get them in the box....much like you describe. If there is an issue deal with it and set the tone early....if they don't get in the box in the time allowed (10 or 20 seconds depending on rule sets) then call a strike on them....same with pitcher if she doesn't pitch when told to (within the time allowed) give a ball to the batter. if there is more delay in the later innings just give your "instruction" more, when needed keep them moving whether that is the first inning or the last!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

This is a funny thing with timed games. Both teams lollygag around for 4 innings then one team all of the sudden thinks they need that extra inning to do what they have not done all game!

All the more reason I like the Time + 1 inning rule.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

All the more reason I like the Time + 1 inning rule.

I like Time+1 too ... but it's a tourney killer - especially with all the rain we had and the problems that created regarding getting all the games in.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

I like Time+1 too ... but it's a tourney killer - especially with all the rain we had and the problems that created regarding getting all the games in.

Not at all. You just shorten up the time. If you were running 75 min + 1 inning, change it to 60 min + 1 or whatever time the tournament has available.

[Dakota]

Couple of things (one already mentioned):

1) Speaking ASA, just call the strike, don't call for the pitch.

2) Players are allowed to do normal things normally, even in the last minute of a timed game. If a player suddenly develops the need for a long ritual between each pitch as the time is running out, it is proper to put a stop to it. And, besides, this takes you out of the fans' line of fire on the delaying - they'll direct it to the opposition, where it belongs, anyway.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Dakota

1) Speaking ASA, just call the strike, don't call for the pitch.

Point of clarification - call Dead Ball, then Strike. 7.4.J-Effect

[umpinill]

Doesn't the rule book properly cover the amount of time that the defense or offense is allowed between pitches. Why would this change because one time is now trying to use their alloted time to "delay" the game? As an umpire I have seen all the tactics to delay a timed game. Do I allow the tactics, sure do as long as the rules allow me to put a stop to it at the proper time. I do not hurry up the game because team A now has to catch up in the final minutes of a game, team B has the same rights from the first pitch to last pitch of the game.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by umpinill

Doesn't the rule book properly cover the amount of time that the defense or offense is allowed between pitches. Why would this change because one time is now trying to use their alloted time to "delay" the game? As an umpire I have seen all the tactics to delay a timed game. Do I allow the tactics, sure do as long as the rules allow me to put a stop to it at the proper time. I do not hurry up the game because team A now has to catch up in the final minutes of a game, team B has the same rights from the first pitch to last pitch of the game.

I agree in general, but it is interesting that the intentional delay rule does not state that the tactics used to delay must be illegal, only that they be "noticeably designed to delay." (ASA 5-4-E)

While ASA has never gotten too close to the edge in providing interps for this rule, my interpretation has been what I noted above - doing normal things normally, where previous behavior during this game is one guide to what "normally" means. Sudden changes in behavior would seem to be "noticeable" - which is the standard of the rule.

[mcrowder]

Again, this was not brought up as a delaying tactics conversation as much as a directed pitch conversation. I should have simply awarded the strike instead - which solves both of my issues.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

... awarded the strike ...

I like that... award it... like it's a gift, or something they earned

[bkbjones]

This here horrible man rang up a strike (strike one, mind you) on some poor little 10U girl over the weekend. It was more to get the point over to the coaches that yes, by gawd, they DO have to keep a foot in the box on what I would (likely mistakenly, but it's what I would call) call a "plain vanilla" caught ball or strike.

The rest of you feel free to chime in and jump on my butt. It's already been jumped on.

[3afan]

Originally Posted by umpinill

Doesn't the rule book properly cover the amount of time that the defense or offense is allowed between pitches. Why would this change because one time is now trying to use their alloted time to "delay" the game? As an umpire I have seen all the tactics to delay a timed game. Do I allow the tactics, sure do as long as the rules allow me to put a stop to it at the proper time. I do not hurry up the game because team A now has to catch up in the final minutes of a game, team B has the same rights from the first pitch to last pitch of the game.

AGREE - the rules of the game do not change after the 'two-minute warning' ...

but letting the pitcher pitch when the batter is not looking? i'd avoid that, thats asking for trouble ...

[Dutch Alex]

John,
Before you get to the point giving/awarding/punishing the batter with a strike you could considder to give the coach his "offensive visit". This will force the coach to watch out for you, he can now be send away if anyone of his battinglist wants to step out the box with both feet (that inning)...
Now you don't hurt a little girl but got the man you want to hurry up and instruct his girls well.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Dutch Alex

John,
Before you get to the point giving/awarding/punishing the batter with a strike you could considder to give the coach his "offensive visit". This will force the coach to watch out for you, he can now be send away if anyone of his battinglist wants to step out the box with both feet (that inning)...
Now you don't hurt a little girl but got the man you want to hurry up and instruct his girls well.

Sander,
You will be delighted to know that my wife has a BROKEN (can't imagine how it got broken...) magnetic sign that says, "Living with a Dutchman builds character." My family is originally from Deventer and the area.

I had already had a personal visit with the coach after telling each of his players they needed to keep a foot in the box. I like your idea, though!