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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 10:41am
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Greetings,
Had the following come up in an 8th grade game, under NFHS
rules. My team was warned for a delay of game for interfering with the ball after we made a hoop. Later, one of my defenders reached through the boundary line while the other team was inbounding. My player didn't touch the ball or player. My team was "T"'d and the other team shot two. The ref explained that the first delay of game warning counted toward the inbound violation. Even though this was different than previous games, I didn't contest the call. Later, I re-read sections of the NFHS rules and case books. My interpretation is that each "Warning for Delay" is recorded for the specific violation and not combined. The NFHS case book just about states this directly.
Which is right?
Thanks
EG
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Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 10:50am
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You are correct

These are two separate violations that should have each been address with a warning.
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Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 12:01pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by egausch
Greetings,
Had the following come up in an 8th grade game, under NFHS
rules. My team was warned for a delay of game for interfering with the ball after we made a hoop. Later, one of my defenders reached through the boundary line while the other team was inbounding. My player didn't touch the ball or player. My team was "T"'d and the other team shot two. The ref explained that the first delay of game warning counted toward the inbound violation. Even though this was different than previous games, I didn't contest the call. Later, I re-read sections of the NFHS rules and case books. My interpretation is that each "Warning for Delay" is recorded for the specific violation and not combined. The NFHS case book just about states this directly.
Which is right?
Thanks
EG
This is extremely simple to explain. The official was wrong. It happens once every 743,496,926,362,475,902,163,856.72 calls.
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Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 12:14pm
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Boy Mark, you're on a roll today. Have good games last night?
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Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 12:43pm
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Thanks for the replys. Just searched and found the same question/answer a few weeks ago. Sorry about that.
As a coach, what would be the best way to discuss/contest this call during a game? It didn't make or break this game but it could in the future.
EG
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Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 03:27pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by egausch
As a coach, what would be the best way to discuss/contest this call during a game? It didn't make or break this game but it could in the future.
EG
The best way to contest a call during the game is: DON"T!!

The first step in addressing a call like this, is to gauge the personality and open-mindedness of the ref. If he/she seems approachable, and you don't already have a T, wait for a dead ball such as a time-out or half-time, and ask politely and objectively about the situation. Sometimes a small compliment toward the ref helps. Sometimes. Depends on the guy/gal.

Whatever they say, don't argue. If you have already checked your current NFHS rule book, and you are certain about the interpretation, you might quietly add, at the end of the conversation, "I'd better go home and read rule 4.43 (or whatever) again. I must have missed something." Thank the ref, and go back to your huddle.

If you can pull this off for every call you doubt and never yell at the ref across the floor, eventually we will nominate you to sit at the right hand of Hawk's Coach, and use his signet ring on Thursdays.
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Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 04:06pm
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Yea, That's pretty much the tact I take on these. I usually approach the ref(s) either during the half or after the game. In this particular case the ref was extremely "unapproachable". A bit crabby IMHO. I'll probably approach him later on. I have yet to quote chapter and verse during a game because my guess is that it would be viewed as "a challenge", somewhat disrespectful, and put him on the defensive, regardless of how carefully it is presented. Better to discuss in a more private manner.
Don't want to ruffle any feathers.
Thanks, for the feedback. I really wanted to get a view from the other side of the fence.
EG
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Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 04:10pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Padgett
[QUOTE
This is extremely simple to explain. The official was wrong. It happens once every 743,496,926,362,475,902,163,856.72 calls. [/B][/QUOTE]

Review of game film by coaches has revealed that mark has a misplaced decimal and many extraneous commas. The actual figure is 1 in every 7.4349692636247590216385672 times
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 04:23pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Padgett
[QUOTE
This is extremely simple to explain. The official was wrong. It happens once every 743,496,926,362,475,902,163,856.72 calls.
Review of game film by coaches has revealed that mark has a misplaced decimal and many extraneous commas. The actual figure is 1 in every 7.4349692636247590216385672 times [/B][/QUOTE]

Too wicked!!
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Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 06:34pm
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Smile

Would anyone like to give the Case book situation of this rule. I can't find the rule on the player delaying the game after a made basket(batting the ball away). I've only found the rule on reaching through the boundary plane. HELP!! Thanks in advance.
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Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 10:25pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by kevin
Would anyone like to give the Case book situation of this rule. I can't find the rule on the player delaying the game after a made basket(batting the ball away). I've only found the rule on reaching through the boundary plane. HELP!! Thanks in advance.
Rule is 10-1-5(d).
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Old Wed Jan 16, 2002, 10:45pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by egausch
Yea, That's pretty much the tact I take on these. I usually approach the ref(s) either during the half or after the game. In this particular case the ref was extremely "unapproachable". A bit crabby IMHO. I'll probably approach him later on. I have yet to quote chapter and verse during a game because my guess is that it would be viewed as "a challenge", somewhat disrespectful, and put him on the defensive, regardless of how carefully it is presented. Better to discuss in a more private manner.
Don't want to ruffle any feathers.
Thanks, for the feedback. I really wanted to get a view from the other side of the fence.
EG
Coach, if the official who made the call is unapproachable, then professionally and respectfully speak to the other official. Just explain to him that you're quite sure that each type of delay must occur a second time after the warning, before a T can be assessed. That's about all you can do. If you can't get the mistake corrected, call the assignor and ask him to handle it.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 17, 2002, 11:15am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef

Coach, if the official who made the call is unapproachable, then professionally and respectfully speak to the other official. Just explain to him that you're quite sure that each type of delay must occur a second time after the warning, before a T can be assessed. That's about all you can do. If you can't get the mistake corrected, call the assignor and ask him to handle it.
The other thing you can do is ask the official(s) to look it up after the game. State that you are going to do the same. Make it sound like a "learning" experience, not a "gotcha" experience.

It won't help you in this game, but maybe the officials (in this case; perhaps you in another) will learn the correct rule and become better officials for it.
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Old Thu Jan 17, 2002, 12:14pm
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Wow!! Some of you guys (and rainmaker) are pretty quick with the rule citations. Time to fess up ... do you really know the actual number and can cite them chapter and verse, or do you look them up and then cite them? Do you somehow have them on-line, etc.? I have my rule book with me here at work (eating lunch and reading these posts) and I have to look up some (but not all) to get the definitive answer. I know the rules (i.e. what constitutes a delay of game), but not "exactly" what it says and the rule number / case book example. I'm impressed.
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Old Thu Jan 17, 2002, 04:11pm
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I know that BktBallRef and his alter-ego TH use the A.R.S. CD, and simply copy and paste.

For me, I simply remember what each main rule says:
(1) Court
(2) Officials
(3) Players/Subs
(4) Definitions
(5) Scoring/Timing
(6) Live Ball/Dead Ball
(7) Throw-in
(8) Free Throws
(9) Violations
(10) Fouls

That narrows the search down quite a bit. From there, you simply look within the rules, remembering that definitions are in alphabetical order.
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