You make the call

[mcrowder]

She must run bases correctly. However, when the umpire awards the base, she is allowed to retouch... so we don't have enough information yet.

Cecil's 2nd question is important - where was the runner protected to (i.e. awarded)? Probably 2nd from the description, but this is a guess.

Also - was this missed base appeal made during live or dead ball period?

If the award was 3rd base, the umpire will not be telling the runner to go retouch, but the umpire SHOULD announce the OBS and award third base (yes, this can be awkward and/or confusing if she's already standing on 3rd). If the runner goes and retouches properly, she's fine. Most likely, she won't ... and then a dead ball appeal at 1st would result in an out.

On the other hand, if this is a live ball appeal --- wouldn't most of you call that a play on the runner? At which point we should rule dead ball, announce the OBS and the award, and again, see if the runner goes to retouch.

I'd be interested to hear Mike's opinion on this.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

She must run bases correctly. However, when the umpire awards the base, she is allowed to retouch... so we don't have enough information yet.

Cecil's 2nd question is important - where was the runner protected to (i.e. awarded)? Probably 2nd from the description, but this is a guess.

Also - was this missed base appeal made during live or dead ball period?

If the award was 3rd base, the umpire will not be telling the runner to go retouch, but the umpire SHOULD announce the OBS and award third base (yes, this can be awkward and/or confusing if she's already standing on 3rd). If the runner goes and retouches properly, she's fine. Most likely, she won't ... and then a dead ball appeal at 1st would result in an out.

On the other hand, if this is a live ball appeal --- wouldn't most of you call that a play on the runner? At which point we should rule dead ball, announce the OBS and the award, and again, see if the runner goes to retouch.

I'd be interested to hear Mike's opinion on this.

Agreed, there is no ASA rule which exempts the runner, obstructed or not, from touching all the bases in proper order.

Once the ball becomes dead for any reason, I'm hesitating to see any reaction by the runner (as to return to touch the missed base). If none, I accept the appeal and rule the OBS out.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Agreed, there is no ASA rule which exempts the runner, obstructed or not, from touching all the bases in proper order.

Once the ball becomes dead for any reason, I'm hesitating to see any reaction by the runner (as to return to touch the missed base). If none, I accept the appeal and rule the OBS out.

If you had a situation like this where the runner missed 1st, ended on 2nd, and your award was third, you would announce the OBS and the award, and wait to see what the runner did regarding the missed base, right?

So why give LESS opportunity to fix her mistake to someone who managed to make it to their awarded base?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

If you had a situation like this where the runner missed 1st, ended on 2nd, and your award was third, you would announce the OBS and the award, and wait to see what the runner did regarding the missed base, right?

I would probably do the same thing. Hesitate, announce the award. Hesitate again and then move on. If there is an appeal coming, I will accept it at that point.

So why give LESS opportunity to fix her mistake to someone who managed to make it to their awarded base?

How do you figure there was less opportunity? If the award would have been 2B, there is no OBS to address once she passed that base.

[debeau]

ISF
New rule last year
The runner is exempted from touching the base if prevented from doing so by obstruction .

[Dakota]

Define "prevented"...

Unless the defender picked up the bag and tossed it into the dugout, not much would "prevent" retouching the bag.

[debeau]

If they couldnt touch the bag in the normal legal running of the bases.
The same as you would judge if it was obstruction , then they dont have to touch that base .

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Define "prevented"...

Unless the defender picked up the bag and tossed it into the dugout, not much would "prevent" retouching the bag.

And then the fielder could be a minor league manager.

[ukumpire]

Originally Posted by debeau

ISF
New rule last year
The runner is exempted from touching the base if prevented from doing so by obstruction .

Not much difference between ISF and ASA Rule Book, but this is one of the few. The BR was Obs from touching 1st and proceded to 2nd therefore if only reaching 2nd - No Appeal on missing 1st, the Obs protects this happening. If the BR does not break stride and continues to 3rd and gets tagged within reason, or in the Umpires judgement would of made 3rd, then still Safe. Regardless of missing 1st, The Obs ruled protects the runner, the overthrow possibly would of happened regardless.

Bebeau so few ISF umpires on this great site - Who are you?

[debeau]

Mick
To tell you the truth I havnt had to deal with it .
Hell , the players are still trying to get their head around the original obstruction rule change .
I generally umpire high level mens ball so they are pushing the boundaries anyway .
Had a 13 year old tourney in April and the coaches were still using rules and mind sets from early 90's . They were devestated when we said there were major changes in 2002 and another 64 changes in 2006 .

UKumpire
I umpire in New Zealand
I come on to this site for fun discussion and many plays and relate them to ISF .
Many rules are the same but our interretations are sometimes different .
Obstruction is one of the major ones , ie how we deal with an obstructed runner .
How is the UK , weather warm ?
Here in New Zealand , just hit winter with temps still getting to late twenties(celcius ) .
1st big frost of the year Monday and went down to 0 but thats about as cold as it gets .
Expecting a Southerly storm on Friday and Saturday with snow to low levels .
we generally get snow 2 or 3 times a year but it only sits around for a few days where I live .
To tell you the truth we could have winter softball if we had the numbers .
A sunny winter day still gets to 15degrees and is often warmer than those early summer easterly winds .

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I would probably do the same thing. Hesitate, announce the award. Hesitate again and then move on. If there is an appeal coming, I will accept it at that point.



How do you figure there was less opportunity? If the award would have been 2B, there is no OBS to address once she passed that base.

Because your first answer was, "Once the ball becomes dead for any reason, I'm hesitating to see any reaction by the runner (as to return to touch the missed base). If none, I accept the appeal and rule the OBS out." I didn't read that you would announce the award in that case, which was my main point of contention with your statement.

[debeau]

Dakota
Yes you have it correct .
OBST is still signalled

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by debeau

Dakota
Yes you have it correct .
OBST is still signalled

Good rule. Common sense.
Runner should not be penalized for obstruction and delayed in attaining bases.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Because your first answer was, "Once the ball becomes dead for any reason, I'm hesitating to see any reaction by the runner (as to return to touch the missed base). If none, I accept the appeal and rule the OBS out." I didn't read that you would announce the award in that case, which was my main point of contention with your statement.

In the OP, there would have been no award to announce as the OBS was dropped (IMO based on the scenario) when the runner passed 2B.

[debeau]

Mick
It is essential to state here that OBST must still be judged .
If in your scenario you judge the runner was not hindered then you dont have OBST .
In your scenario I wouldnt have OBST either .