Make the call

[oppool]

Ran across this play last night reading the FED book I assume the call is the same in all the leagues. If not will work it out in here. Thought this might be a good play to keep the brain loose while I have had 2 weeks of rain, ice and bad field conditions.

R1 on 3rd, 1 out, B2 hits a high fly to left center. R1 is sent home on contact thinking no fielder will get to the ball and after touching and crossing home plate see that F8 is making a sliding attempt on the fly ball R1 heads back to 3rd. F8 fumbles the ball and picks it up off the ground and throws it to F1 who is standing between 3rd and home, F1 tags R1 then throws to F4 who tags B2 sliding into 2nd. The defense starts coming off the field, double play, end of inning


MAKE THE CALL no peeking until after you answered!


Don

[umpdude]

My first thought is if R1 has crossed home plate and the ball isnt caught, then he isnt in jeopardy of being called out. But...if that player returns to the field of play and draws a throw then the next closest runner to home is out. Please correct me if Im wrong.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by oppool
Ran across this play last night reading the FED book I assume the call is the same in all the leagues. If not will work it out in here. Thought this might be a good play to keep the brain loose while I have had 2 weeks of rain, ice and bad field conditions.

R1 on 3rd, 1 out, B2 hits a high fly to left center. R1 is sent home on contact thinking no fielder will get to the ball and after touching and crossing home plate see that F8 is making a sliding attempt on the fly ball R1 heads back to 3rd. F8 fumbles the ball and picks it up off the ground and throws it to F1 who is standing between 3rd and home, F1 tags R1 then throws to F4 who tags B2 sliding into 2nd. The defense starts coming off the field, double play, end of inning


MAKE THE CALL no peeking until after you answered!


Don

I have a feeling this is not the same for all books. Fed may be different, but I believe in ASA, assuming the umpire call the offensive players out on the respective tags, the defense can head for the dugout.

[ChampaignBlue]

I think umpdude has it right even in ASA. R1 touched home legally, that's a run. The later activity is INT. Jim

[greymule]

I thought that in all baseball and softball, if a player had legally scored, he could not be put out (with the one exception of the force-play slide rule in Fed).

Even if a player thought he left 3B too soon after a catch and retreated after scoring, the ump would count the run and take him off the basepaths.

Unless Fed has some stipulation I don't remember, I would not call interference on a player who attempted to return in the mistaken belief that he had missed a base or left one too soon.

[ChampaignBlue]

Originally posted by greymule
I thought that in all baseball and softball, if a player had legally scored, he could not be put out (with the one exception of the force-play slide rule in Fed).

Even if a player thought he left 3B too soon after a catch and retreated after scoring, the ump would count the run and take him off the basepaths.

Unless Fed has some stipulation I don't remember, I would not call interference on a player who attempted to return in the mistaken belief that he had missed a base or left one too soon.

As described I'd have INT because R1 drew the throw while on the base path. Had R1 simply walked off the field after the no catch and the defense threw to the plate then that would be different. Jim

[bluezebra]

Originally posted by ChampaignBlue

As described I'd have INT because R1 drew the throw while on the base path. Had R1 simply walked off the field after the no catch and the defense threw to the plate then that would be different. Jim

But R1 is not out. The run scored legally. And R1 did not interfere. He/she was returning to tag up at 3B, thinking the ball was caught. And the succeeding runner was tagged out. ONE OUT on the play.

Even if you rule interference by R1, you cannot remove the run. There is still only one out made on the play.

Bob

[Edited by bluezebra on Feb 28th, 2003 at 01:14 PM]

[kellerumps]

I think we have a run scored and an out at 2nd base on the tag. If you felt there was INT on the runner who scored then we also have a dead ball on the INT.

I would rule the same in NCAA, FED and ASA. I couldn't find anything in the NCAA rulebook. Have not looked at Fed or ASA.

[ChampaignBlue]

[/B][/QUOTE]

But R1 is not out. The run scored legally. And R1 did not interfere. He/she was returning to tag up at 3B, thinking the ball was caught. And the succeeding runner was tagged out. ONE OUT.

Bob

[Edited by bluezebra on Feb 28th, 2003 at 01:12 PM] [/B][/QUOTE]

It's because R1 has scored that it is INT. INT does not have to be intentional to be called, if R1 stays in the basepath and draws a throw because of it then it would be INT, still only one out called (runner closest to the plate , in this case B2). If R1 simply walks off the field then the defense has no argument that R1 did something to draw the throw. Jim

[kellerumps]

I didn't mean to imply that R1 was out. I ment that if the umpire felt there was INT then we would have an automatic dead ball and an out at 2nd base since that was the closest runner to home.

Once R1 scores, they aquire the same status as a person on a the bench like a on deck batter, coach, ect.

The run counts.

[greymule]

Just because the defense plays on a runner who is out, that doesn't mean the runner ipso facto interfered. I don't know what rule Fed has established, but in everything else a runner who continues to run is not necessarily guilty of interference if the defense plays on him. If he pretends to be caught in a rundown or something, that's different. I wouldn't call a runner out for continuing to run unless I believed he was intending to mislead the defense.

I admit that drawing a throw by running back to 3B after scoring, even if in a genuine but mistaken attempt to correct an error, might be a case of its own.

OK, it's a Fed play. So what's the ruling, oppool?

[ChampaignBlue]

I'm not saying it's automatic, but ASA does say that "after being declared out or scoring ... a runner continuing to run and drawing a throw may be considered a form of interference." 8-8-P Kinda a mute point in this play since they threw out B2. Jim

[Panda Bear]

Run scored. Interference or not, the runner was tagged out, and is the only out available. If runner wasn't out, if in the umps judgment, the player remaining on the field caused interference by distracting, the batter/runner would be out. (Ump is in the clear as interference was a judgement call.) Either way, now 2 out (1 previous, 1 on the play), no one on base. Play on. Unless bottom of last inning & the 1 run won the game. In that situation, no interference in any case, game was over.

[ronald]

ASA talking:

I may not have paid enough attention in class but I thought I heard that if a runner touches a base and then goes back past that base (touching or not touching it) that he/she had lost that base. If I paid attention correctly, would that apply here or did I get not pay close enough attention?

If R1 lost it, then I'd go with 2 outs and no int. If she did not loses it, then i have to judge whether the going back towards third was int and rule accordingly. A run would count regardless of int or not. If I have int, then out at second, run scores and 2 outs.

I wish the sit had more info so we could get a clearer idea of what led the defense to throw home. was offense yelling, get back to third, defense screaming throw home, etc. That helps to make the correct call. This type of wording should be in some of the plays imho.

[WestMichiganBlue]

FED 8.6.17. . . . .after scoring, a runner continuing to run and draws a throw may be considered a form of interference. Penalty: dead ball; runner closest to home is out and other runners return.

OK, I've got the rule, but not the answer. Is the runner closest to home R1? Is she out and B1 returns to 1B? No run scores?

Or, because R1 has already scored she can not be called out, so B1 is closes to home and is out.

Either way we only have one out - just who is out - and what's on base - and why's on... (never mind!)
WMB