Yet another manager meltdown

[NCASAUmp]

Another coach flips out and goes berzerk on the field.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hUcFWPgB8oY

I don't think the plate he drew is regulation...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Another coach flips out and goes berzerk on the field.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hUcFWPgB8oY

I don't think the plate he drew is regulation...

Yeah, saw that about a dozen times or so last night on ESPN.

I know it will not happen, but in my mind the ONLY way baseball, at any professional level, is going to stop the brawls, fights and idiotic antics like this "adult" is for the umpires to display the integrity they claim by declaring a forfeit and leaving the field.

This would do two things. Force the issue of how serious the ownership is as it concern putting on a ball game or a circus, and show the umpires how much support they have from their union reps. The only time it would be even questionable is when it is just the individual idiot. On the fights, it is easy as you dump everyone who leaves the dugout or their playing position to take part in a fracas.

History shows that umpires will most like take it in the shorts if they actually do their job properly.

[NCASAUmp]

Very true, Mike. I ranted about "professional athletes" on another section of my website, and it's cases like these that just prove my point. I agree that situations like these should result in a forfeit, but sadly, that will never happen. The owners will complain that the fans, who paid good money to see a game, will be penalized for one person's behavior.

Boo. Friggin'. Hoo.

Perhaps the fines and penalties should be increased for those who engage in this kind of behavior. If they fight, they're gone for 90 games and loss all pay for that time. If they get tossed, minimum 5 game suspension and loss of pay. Toughen up, MLB!

On a related note, Lou Piniella was suspended for only one game for getting tossed after kicking dirt onto an ump's shoes (and possibly kicking his shin as wel). After getting tossed, he admitted that he knew that he was wrong, and he was only trying to find the right time to get fired up over a call.

These meltdowns and tirades have got to stop. We shouldn't have to take someone else's BS simply because they have no other way to get their team fired up. Getting tossed out of a game, to me, is a serious matter, but as such, I use ejections as a last resort whenever possible.

The worst part about the video was the fact that some fans seemed to be cheering him on.

[MJT]

On a lighter note, that was pretty creative stuff crawling up on the rosin bag and throwing it at the home plate ump like a grenade. You have to figure he will be suspended for some time for that one!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MJT

On a lighter note, that was pretty creative stuff crawling up on the rosin bag and throwing it at the home plate ump like a grenade. You have to figure he will be suspended for some time for that one!

Definitely! He must have been in the military to toss that rosin bag right at the feet of the umpire.

[IamMatt]

I don't care what his jersey says, he is obviously not a Well Man!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Very true, Mike. I ranted about "professional athletes" on another section of my website, and it's cases like these that just prove my point. I agree that situations like these should result in a forfeit, but sadly, that will never happen. The owners will complain that the fans, who paid good money to see a game, will be penalized for one person's behavior.

Boo. Friggin'. Hoo.

That's the point. You know one of those fans is going to be a lawyer and bring action to recoup their money. If the owners have to start handing some of the money back to the fans, you will see a different demeaner from ownership around the league, including tighter management of the player's on-field activities.

That means bigger, heftier fines out of the manager's and player's paycheck. Maybe then these morons on the field will realize they are adult that are only playing a game of the children's, not acting like them

[NCASAUmp]

That's why my response is always the same when asked, "what level do you umpire?"

"Supposedly adults."

It takes them a moment to realize what I'm saying, but they usually get a kick out of it.

I frankly have little sympathy for "professional athletes" and their coaches. They're paid outrageous salaries (more than I make in 6 years' time), have most of the year off, go on strike every 5-10 years, and whine constantly. And they're playing a game! A GAME!

Isn't it odd how in baseball, if a player fails 70% of the time at bat, he's considered good?

My thoughts? Fire 'em all. Bring up the kids who really want to play their hearts out. Drop the obscene ticket prices down to $10 again so a family of four can watch a sport that's played with some dignity without having to pay the price of a cheap car.

[Dakota]

Geez-ol-petes, you guys certainly seem to have public entertainment confused with sports...

Just as NCAA Div 1 umpires are not going to call an IP for leaping, neither are the MLB umpires going to declare a forfeit for USC by the manager (or nealy anyone else short of a complete out-of-control melee involving the crowd).

Managers getting in the face of umpires is part of the MLB show, nothing more.

For a bit of historical perspective, check Managers, umpires have throwback week

The unfortunate part is too many amateur players and their coaches (and fans) seem to think that behavior should be copied. And, you do occasionally have the truely insane managers in professional baseball who also lose sight of the fact that it is a show.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Managers getting in the face of umpires is part of the MLB show, nothing more.

Tom,

Maybe you didn't notice, but we ceded the point that it would never happen. You might also notice, that we were not talking about arguments with umpires, but when there is actual assault of another on the field of play.

The owners constantly construe anything they do not appreciate as detrimental to the game. Well, if the ludicrous antics and outright brawls are not detrimental to the game, than neither is a player having a few beers or playing some cards in a casino.

The hypocrates will have it both ways, but never with my money.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Tom,

Maybe you didn't notice, but we ceded the point that it would never happen. ...

(from previous post)...

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I know it will not happen, but in my mind the ONLY way baseball, at any professional level, is going to stop the brawls, fights and idiotic antics like this "adult" is for the umpires to display the integrity they claim by declaring a forfeit and leaving the field.

Yes, but the reason it would never happen was characterized as a lack of stones on the part of the umpires to do their job. I maintain that it is NOT their job to declare game forfeits except possibly in very rare circumstances, which would probably already have staduim security on the field.

PS: I haven't seen the linked video (can't at the moment), so I am not commenting specifically about that, but unless the rant involved more than an insane manager, there is nothing for the umpire to do but take notes for his report.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Yes, but the reason it would never happen was characterized as a lack of stones on the part of the umpires to do their job. I maintain that it is NOT their job to declare game forfeits except possibly in very rare circumstances, which would probably already have stadium security on the field.

I don't think it was characterized as a lack of stones in the umpires' ball bags... I believe what Mike was referring to was the lack of stones in the MLB heirarchy. There's no excuse for a bench-clearing brawl, period. It should not be tolerated. Period. MLB needs to step up and address the situation sternly, unlike the way they're handling the steroid issue. Period.

Kids watch these games. Kids immitate behavior. Kids then wonder why they're suspended or kicked out of the league when they start a fight on the field. My father was also a SP umpire, and he reminded me of a game he called where two kids were ready to fight. He tossed them both as soon as the gloves were thrown to the ground. Two more kids from a team's bench came running off, ready to jump in "just like the pros." He tossed them, too, and rightfully so.

If MLB (and other sports organizations, for that matter) won't do anything about it, maybe they should give one of those "TV-MA" warnings at the beginning of the games. Okay, that's a little extreme, but hey. :P

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I don't think it was characterized as a lack of stones in the umpires' ball bags... I believe what Mike was referring to was the lack of stones in the MLB heirarchy.

Maybe he meant that, but what he said was the umpires were not displaying the integrity they claim to have.

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

There's no excuse for a bench-clearing brawl, period. It should not be tolerated. Period. MLB needs to step up and address the situation sternly, unlike the way they're handling the steroid issue. Period.

I agree on the steriod issue, because I think that is damaging to the game itself. On the bench-clearing, etc., I don't agree. As I said, I haven't seen the latest video of a manager meltdown, but based on what you typically see at MLB games these days, I don't think there is a problem.

Managers v Umpires is part of the show, just like the good guys v villians setups in professional wrestling. MLB umpires know that going in. It is part of their job description.

In fact, if anything, I think the modern game is too sanitized. They have effectively taken the brush back pitch out of the game, and have instead inserted the umpires into what should be player on player discipline.

Quoting from the article I linked,

So it's really not so bad anymore, although we're going through quite a messy stretch here as the weather starts to heat up. But today it's more like the sheep dog and the coyote in the old cartoons. They blow each other up with dynamite, push one another off of a cliff and generally beat on each other until the dinner whistle blows, ending their shift.

Then they drop the bazookas, shake hands and go home.

JMO.

[CecilOne]

Aha, the essence of the problem:

"Managers v Umpires is part of the show"

"too many amateur players and their coaches (and fans) seem to think that behavior should be copied"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Actually, I did mean the umpires didn't have the courage to do it. But, then again, they are just doing the job for which they are paid. And they wouldn't have that job the following year if they did unless their leadership could smack some sense into the owners.

BTW, when was the last time you have actually argued with a player, coach or manager? I gave that up a long time ago. They rant, rave, hit the magic button and I calmly inform them of their pending departure. I refuse to play the stooge for these guys. If they want to get their team psyched up, he is going to have to find another way then getting a rise out of me.