OBS: right on top of 2B

[Bluefoot]

Hypothetical situation, NFHS rules, YOU are the FU:
R1 on 1B. R1 tries to steal second base on the release of the pitch by F1.
F6 awaits throw from F2 by standing directly on top of 2B.
R1 arrives at 2B while standing up and running, before the ball gets to F6. R1 and F6 collide on top of 2B. You signal OBS and hold out left arm. R1 is not yet tagged out with the ball.
R1 does not stop running and tries to advance to 3B.
(If R1 is safe at 3B, any OBS would be over.)

But what if R1 is tagged out by the defense between 2B and 3B - what is your call then? Since F6 did not commit the OBS between two bases, but rather directly on a base, do you have R1 protected only between 1B and 2B, and/or also protected between 2B and 3B? Although it may have seemed initially that R1 was intending to advance only to 2B, R1 is entitled to try to advance to 3B. F6 obstructed both R1's arrival and departure at 2B. What's your call: either R1 out, or dead ball and put R1 on 2B? (There's no way to put R1 on 3B, right?)

[Daryl H. Long]

R1 reached 2nd base without contact so OBS is not an issue. In any case the runner can only be protected if she runs the bases legally.

A collision has occurred so therefore we can only have 2 things:
1. Malicious contact: R1 declared out and ejected (3-6-18, Penalty; 8-6-14)
2. Interference: R1 out. I mentioned earlier that R1 must run the bases legally. She does not have to slide but if she elects not to she may not cause illegal contact on F6 who is still making a play (ie about to catch a thrown ball from F2 (see 8-6-13).

R1 is out in both cases so the rest of your hypothetical situation is immaterial.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Bluefoot

Hypothetical situation, NFHS rules, YOU are the FU:
R1 on 1B. R1 tries to steal second base on the release of the pitch by F1.
F6 awaits throw from F2 by standing directly on top of 2B.
R1 arrives at 2B while standing up and running, before the ball gets to F6. R1 and F6 collide on top of 2B. You signal OBS and hold out left arm. R1 is not yet tagged out with the ball.
R1 does not stop running and tries to advance to 3B.
(If R1 is safe at 3B, any OBS would be over.)

But what if R1 is tagged out by the defense between 2B and 3B - what is your call then? Since F6 did not commit the OBS between two bases, but rather directly on a base, do you have R1 protected only between 1B and 2B, and/or also protected between 2B and 3B? Although it may have seemed initially that R1 was intending to advance only to 2B, R1 is entitled to try to advance to 3B. F6 obstructed both R1's arrival and departure at 2B. What's your call: either R1 out, or dead ball and put R1 on 2B? (There's no way to put R1 on 3B, right?)

OBS. R1 has the right to advance to 3B. Forget how absurd it may seem, that option must still be made available by the defense until F6 gains possession of the ball. The OP states that the runner was "running" when she got to 2B, so there needs to be some assumption that she had no intention of stopping. But it really doesn't make a difference. The runner apparently reached 2B safely and then was obstructed. She is protected between 2B & 3B.

[3afan]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

R1 reached 2nd base without contact so OBS is not an issue. In any case the runner can only be protected if she runs the bases legally.

A collision has occurred so therefore we can only have 2 things:
1. Malicious contact: R1 declared out and ejected (3-6-18, Penalty; 8-6-14)
2. Interference: R1 out. I mentioned earlier that R1 must run the bases legally. She does not have to slide but if she elects not to she may not cause illegal contact on F6 who is still making a play (ie about to catch a thrown ball from F2 (see 8-6-13).

R1 is out in both cases so the rest of your hypothetical situation is immaterial.

from the scenario sure didnt sound like malicious contact ..... also dont see how you can have INT in the scenario described in the original post

sounds like easy OBS to me ...

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

R1 reached 2nd base without contact so OBS is not an issue. In any case the runner can only be protected if she runs the bases legally.

A collision has occurred so therefore we can only have 2 things:
1. Malicious contact: R1 declared out and ejected (3-6-18, Penalty; 8-6-14)
2. Interference: R1 out. I mentioned earlier that R1 must run the bases legally. She does not have to slide but if she elects not to she may not cause illegal contact on F6 who is still making a play (ie about to catch a thrown ball from F2 (see 8-6-13).

R1 is out in both cases so the rest of your hypothetical situation is immaterial.

You say you have huge amounts of experience, and I'm not trying to offend you ... really I'm not. But the posts here and on other obstruction threads tell me that you really don't get this rule at all.

And even if for some bizarre reason an umpire were to rule no obstruction ... how in the WORLD would you get to interference on this - what play did the runner possibly interfere with?

Incidentally ... the question here is not OBS or no-OBS... it's whether the protection extends to 3rd base. I believe it does. The runner's path between 2nd and 3rd was impeded by the illegal contact. Not sure you would be AWARDING third very often ... but surely the protection extends to 3rd.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Incidentally ... the question here is not OBS or no-OBS... it's whether the protection extends to 3rd base. I believe it does. The runner's path between 2nd and 3rd was impeded by the illegal contact. Not sure you would be AWARDING third very often ... but surely the protection extends to 3rd.

I'm not clear if the runner was actually obstructed before reaching second or after reaching second. If after, definitely protect her to third. If before, I would have trouble protecting her to third. Probably would not be awarding third.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

I'm not clear if the runner was actually obstructed before reaching second or after reaching second. If after, definitely protect her to third. If before, I would have trouble protecting her to third. Probably would not be awarding third.

I believe the question posted here is whether or not you would protect the runner to 3rd when the obstruction occurs on TOP of 2nd base, not before or after.

For me, it would depend upon where the ball is. If the ball is still nowhere near the play (for example, thrown into the outfield by F2), I might award them 3rd. If the ball was a lot closer, I'd probably dead ball the play and put the runner back on 2nd.

However, I do ASA, not NFHS, which is what the OP was requesting. Take my statements with a grain of salt with respect to NFHS rules. Flame away if I'm wrong with respect to ASA.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

I'm not clear if the runner was actually obstructed before reaching second or after reaching second. If after, definitely protect her to third. If before, I would have trouble protecting her to third. Probably would not be awarding third.

Obstruction doesn't have to be an instantaneous thing that happens and then ends. OBS in this case may have started while the runner was between 1st and 2nd (not sure if it did - did the runner slow down because of this fielder in her path without the ball?), but say it did. We now have OBS between 1st and 2nd, probably awarding 2nd if necessary. Now the runner is trying to round the bag, and OBS is still happening. WRT her path between where she was and 3rd base ... was she obstructed. I think the answer is a definite yes in the case of a fielder actually standing on 2nd base. I can barely think of an instance where this fielder could not have obstructed the runner's path to 3rd.

You actually see this MUCH more commonly at 1st. Oblivious F3 standing on the bag causes no contact, but forces BR into a wide turn on her way to 2nd --- it was her path to 2nd that was obstructed by this fielder standing on the bag - so protection is at LEAST to 2nd.

But the sitch posted is very similar.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

I'm not clear if the runner was actually obstructed before reaching second or after reaching second. If after, definitely protect her to third. If before, I would have trouble protecting her to third. Probably would not be awarding third.

According to the OP, she was obstructed at second, actually on the base. This entitles her to protection between second and third, as has already been pointed out, since she technically acquired that base.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I believe the question posted here is whether or not you would protect the runner to 3rd when the obstruction occurs on TOP of 2nd base, not before or after.

For me, it would depend upon where the ball is. If the ball is still nowhere near the play (for example, thrown into the outfield by F2), I might award them 3rd. If the ball was a lot closer, I'd probably dead ball the play and put the runner back on 2nd.

However, I do ASA, not NFHS, which is what the OP was requesting. Take my statements with a grain of salt with respect to NFHS rules. Flame away if I'm wrong with respect to ASA.

Remember - the award and the protection can be two separate things. In the case YOU describe, the award is probably 3rd. The question is ... if the award is NOT 3rd (perhaps the ball is very close to 2nd base), does the PROTECTION still exist between 2nd and 3rd due to the rule that states that an obstructed runner is protected from being called out between the two bases where she was obstructed. I believe the answer is yes ... even if your award is only going to be 2nd base.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

You actually see this MUCH more commonly at 1st. Oblivious F3 standing on the bag causes no contact, but forces BR into a wide turn on her way to 2nd --- it was her path to 2nd that was obstructed by this fielder standing on the bag - so protection is at LEAST to 2nd.

This is a good, direct analogy that I'm surprised no one has brought up. However, I still think the location of the ball still has some influence over my award (see my previous reply).

What surprises me more is how seldom I see an umpire signal DDB in situations as mcrowder described.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Remember - the award and the protection can be two separate things. In the case YOU describe, the award is probably 3rd. The question is ... if the award is NOT 3rd (perhaps the ball is very close to 2nd base), does the PROTECTION still exist between 2nd and 3rd due to the rule that states that an obstructed runner is protected from being called out between the two bases where she was obstructed. I believe the answer is yes ... even if your award is only going to be 2nd base.

And I agree with you. Obstruction occured, runner is protected. Ball is close, award 2nd. Ball is not close, award 3rd.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Obstruction doesn't have to be an instantaneous thing that happens and then ends. OBS in this case may have started while the runner was between 1st and 2nd (not sure if it did - did the runner slow down because of this fielder in her path without the ball?), but say it did. We now have OBS between 1st and 2nd, probably awarding 2nd if necessary. Now the runner is trying to round the bag, and OBS is still happening. WRT her path between where she was and 3rd base ... was she obstructed. I think the answer is a definite yes in the case of a fielder actually standing on 2nd base. I can barely think of an instance where this fielder could not have obstructed the runner's path to 3rd.

You actually see this MUCH more commonly at 1st. Oblivious F3 standing on the bag causes no contact, but forces BR into a wide turn on her way to 2nd --- it was her path to 2nd that was obstructed by this fielder standing on the bag - so protection is at LEAST to 2nd.

But the sitch posted is very similar.

Brain cramp. Forgot the contact on the base. I was picturing something else.

Agree, with the contact on the base. Once achieved, the runner should be protected between the achieved base and the next base.