Aiding the runner

[mcrowder]

12U, tight game.

3B Coach/Manager has an annoying habit of putting his hands on the shoulders of runners on 3rd base, but up until the following had not done anything illegal.

R1 on 2nd makes it to 3rd on a hit, and the ball get away a bit. She starts to run, coach puts his arm up as if to restrain her but doesn't actually make contact. I consider calling the out right there, but decided at that moment to warn instead (I think based on other actions during this game, I must have been the only umpire that knew ANY rules, and was feeling perceived as an OOO - and I wrongly let that feeling keep me from making the call right then). R1 doesn't contact the coach but stops herself and heads 1 step back to 3rd. Coach now has his hands on her shoulder/back, as the ball gets away again. He literally shoves her down the line, yelling "GO!" Of course I call the out right then.

And now I'm the OOO from He!! for the rest of the game.

Coach talks to our director during the game (yes, director was at the fence letting him do this). After the game, director mentions that coach expected a warning, and that he'd been doing this all year (this, of course, after swearing to me that he didn't touch his runner at all!). I merely ask the director, "Next time his girl is thrown out at first, should I warn them - 'Coach ... You need to remind your runners to run faster. The next time your runner doesn't beat the throw, I'm going to have to call her out.'" Director at least laughed at that.

Fun game. This one was the tip of the iceberg. 90 minute timed game, final score 17-17. Haven't been close to an ejection this year yet, but I was close 4 different times with 4 different people.

[Skahtboi]

Funny how "serious" rec leagues can be. This is one of the reasons that I stir clear of rec ball as a rule.

[NCASAUmp]

What is it with umpires who don't know this rule? I've seen umps call runners out for giving their coach a high-5 before time's called. To me, that does not qualify as physically assisting someone - just physically congratulating someone.

Glad to see that there are others who know it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

12U, tight game.

3B Coach/Manager has an annoying habit of putting his hands on the shoulders of runners on 3rd base, but up until the following had not done anything illegal.

R1 on 2nd makes it to 3rd on a hit, and the ball get away a bit. She starts to run, coach puts his arm up as if to restrain her but doesn't actually make contact.

I don't understand why you would consider anything at this point. The coach is allowed to give direction to his/her players and is even allowed to leave the box to do so as long as it does not interfere with the play.

Unless the coach placed themselves in/near basepath to literally block the runner's path, I don't see the issue.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I don't understand why you would consider anything at this point. The coach is allowed to give direction to his/her players and is even allowed to leave the box to do so as long as it does not interfere with the play.

Unless the coach placed themselves in/near basepath to literally block the runner's path, I don't see the issue.

Well, that depends on what he was warned about. I've reminded some 3rd base coaches in rec ball about the "physically assists" rule, only because they were getting way too close to their runners. Would I be so nice in a tourney? No, just rec ball. Most coaches have no clue, so I'll give them a courteous "nudge" in the right direction.

In the end, mcrowder's call was the right one.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, that depends on what he was warned about. I've reminded some 3rd base coaches in rec ball about the "physically assists" rule, only because they were getting way too close to their runners. Would I be so nice in a tourney? No, just rec ball. Most coaches have no clue, so I'll give them a courteous "nudge" in the right direction.

In the end, mcrowder's call was the right one.

Don't confuse a gentle reminder with a "warning". You openly give someone a warning, you better be prepared to back it up when somebody "forgets" about what is or isn't allowed even in rec ball.

I agree a preventive nudge here or there is not a big issue in a rec game, but that wasn't the gist of my post. The OP stated that the warning was an alternative to a ruling, not a point of just being a nice guy.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I don't understand why you would consider anything at this point. The coach is allowed to give direction to his/her players and is even allowed to leave the box to do so as long as it does not interfere with the play.

Unless the coach placed themselves in/near basepath to literally block the runner's path, I don't see the issue.

Well, that's what he did - except it was his arm. He was literally standing next to the girls when they got to third, and was practically whispering in their ears... when this one started to take off, he jumped forward and extended his arm in front of her. He didn't actually contact here, which is the main reason I didn't call anything right then. But he was definitely "near the basepath" and his arm was literally "blocking the runner's path".

Edit to add: and the warning, if he wouldn't have actually violated the rule right after I'd decided to give the warning, would probably have been something like, "Coach - you know that if you physically assist your runner she'll be called out, right?"

[wadeintothem]

Rec league-warn on the marginal ones.. that way it dont escalate. You could have said between innings "you know coach, you didnt do anything illegal, but if you assist a runner I will call her out."

You made a good call.

I too am one of the few that knows the rules in my rec league at any appreciable level.

You help the league by enforcing the rules. You can modify your enforcement to include warnings you would not otherwise give in tournies. I would never warn in a tourney like that and be licking my chops to nail a coach I saw would probably be prone to assisting a runner.

Another thing I do.. our rec league feeds the TB team.. so I will be very quick to let especially the rec league players/coaches know things, so they dont get in bad habbits when TB starts up.