Runners requesting time

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I The only situation when I grant time is when a fielder is holding a tag while the runner is holding a base, and we are simply killing time waiting, since the fielder thinks she should keep holding that tag.

in my mind, that is exactly the situation we are discussing.

Oh yeah, base umpire, call time and sweep the base, and your NCAA evaluator is writing away.

That was part of the discussion for after you call time for the "holding the tag".

NCAA does do things differently though, and they are not the standard IMO. In fact, NCAA robots are about the worst in mechanics I've seen and they are particularly robotic this year, to the point of being irratating to watch.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I guess I am in the minority here;

You're not. Most umpires I work with will not call timeout in the OP, unless we're playing the waiting game for no reason. In fact, we often brag in the dressing room (or the bar) about how many half innings we had that were live the whole time. I'd say that more than half of my innings are constantly live - with the majority of breakages caused by conferences and fouls out of play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Well, now that Steve stole my thunder.....

I don't think you can compare NCAA ball to much else. There are people who CANNOT get up off the ground and keep contact with the base. And just who determined this had to be a "live" game?

What is the purpose of not granting the player's request for time to get up and prepare to continue the game? There is no more delay than there would be for the crew to move into position. For that matter, it might even allow the game to proceed at a quicker pace.

Sorry, I just don't see the fascination with the "live" game issue. Then again, about a year ago I asked someone to give me a valid reason to keep the game live other than "because" or "it's always been that way" or "it's tradition" and I'm still waiting for an answer.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Sorry, I just don't see the fascination with the "live" game issue. Then again, about a year ago I asked someone to give me a valid reason to keep the game live other than "because" or "it's always been that way" or "it's tradition" and I'm still waiting for an answer.

I don't understand your fascination with trying to turn the fastpitch game into slowpitch without the arc rule.

I also don't understand why you think it is a good thing for the game to remove the requirement that the defense maintain control of the ball to keep runners from advancing.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I don't understand your fascination with trying to turn the fastpitch game into slowpitch without the arc rule.

Couldn't be farther from the truth. Don't go strawman on me.

I also don't understand why you think it is a good thing for the game to remove the requirement that the defense maintain control of the ball to keep runners from advancing.

Please note where I make such a statement? Don't waste your time, you cannot find what doesn't exist.

As previously noted, nothing is supposed to occur between the end of the play and the next pitch anyway, so what it the difference? If the defense needs to do something like pull back hair, tie a shoe, or whatever, the game is going to be suspended anyway, so where is the issue?

Still waiting for a valid answer to my question.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Couldn't be farther from the truth. Don't go strawman on me.

Strawman is as strawman does. You started this with the "fascination" charge.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Please note where I make such a statement? Don't waste your time, you cannot find what doesn't exist....As previously noted, nothing is supposed to occur between the end of the play and the next pitch anyway, so what it the difference?

You want to kill the ball when all play has stopped. So, all play has stopped, F6 is standing there with the ball. All runners are stopped on a base. All that remains is to throw the ball back to the pitcher. So, you want to kill the ball then. F6 then overthrows F1. Ball is dead, runners cannot advance. What is the advantage in killing the ball? Easier on the umpire?

If you want to compare apples and apples on slow v fast pitch, don't compare men's slowpitch with JO fastpitch. What is the pace of the game for a men's fastpitch compared with slowpitch at the same skill classification?

And why are you the sole arbiter as to what is a "valid" answer to your question?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Sorry, I just don't see the fascination with the "live" game issue.

Why is calling the game the way it's meant to be called a "fascination"? There's no reason to stop play every 30 seconds to reset. This isn't football. There is a flow to the game. Constant stoppages for unnecessary timeouts disrupts that flow.

[Dukat]

But calling time to allow a runner the ability to get up is IMHO not "unneccessary". With that said though, I have had too many runners think they can just throw their hands up and say time and jump up before I grant it and that out usually gets a conversation with the coach as they cant understand how she is out when "SHE called time"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Why is calling the game the way it's meant to be called a "fascination"? There's no reason to stop play every 30 seconds to reset. This isn't football. There is a flow to the game. Constant stoppages for unnecessary timeouts disrupts that flow.

There's my point. Thank you, very much. WHO SAID THE GAME IS MEANT TO BE PLAYED "LIVE"? What God of softball made that determination?

BTW, you may keep the ball live in FP, but nothing is supposed to happen, so what difference does it make? You get a gotcha on a runner who comes off a base every now and then? Is THAT the way the game is supposed to be played?

If "stoppage" is so bad, why is it that the SP game (which Tom mistakenly believes is part of my belief on this subject) which has more action, more offense, more defense, more at bats and the same number of outs takes only 2/3 of the time it takes to play a quick FP game?

[Paul L]

To me, softball and baseball are games designed to test a multitude of skills. One of the lesser of those skills is the ability of a runner to stay on a base without getting tagged out. Until the runner demonstrates this ability, I don't have relaxed action.

I will not call time in this situation unless the runner on the ground and the fielder holding a tag freeze for a few seconds, in which case I call time even without a request (assuming no other action on the field). I will call time upon request if the runner is stretched out in such a position that they would have unreasonable difficulty in regaining their feet without coming off the bag, such as a hook slide away from the bag with one toe touching.

Sometimes repeated requests will elicit a "You don't need time" from me.

However, I don't feel strongly about this issue and have no problem with another ump handling it differently.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

There's my point. Thank you, very much. WHO SAID THE GAME IS MEANT TO BE PLAYED "LIVE"? What God of softball made that determination?

I would ask you exactly the opposite.

I'm not playing God when I come to the conclusion that this is the way it should be played. The rules themselves lead me to that conclusion. If my conclusion is in error, I welcome you to change my mind. But the fact that the rulebook limits the amount of times that each team can stop play to discuss things, the fact that there are rules around what may or may not happen between pitches (implying that the ball should be live during this period), as well as other things, lead me to believe that the underlying assumption is that the ball is live most of the time. And when it is, there is a natural flow, like I mentioned above.

And maybe it's just a matter of perception.

But the slowpitch game seems to have no flow to me. Stop, start, stop, start, etc.

[BlitzkriegBob]

Sorry gentlemen, it was not my intention to ignite a firestorm. AtlUmpSteve summed up my thoughts on this fiasco much more eloquently than I ever could. Like Steve and Paul L, among others, I didn't mean that I am willing to stand there while a fielder holds a tag on a runner who can't walk it up, and I tried to reflect that in my original post.

I have now officially flip flopped on this issue once again. I see myself being like Paul L in that while I may not grant time every time it's requested, it won't chap my hide if somebody else does it.

Dukat, I would have a hard time stopping myself from responding to the coach who complains "SHE called time" with a "Yes Coach, she did call time but the shortstop called 'Play Ball' before she made the tag."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BlitzkriegBob

Sorry gentlemen, it was not my intention to ignite a firestorm.

Ha! No problem. Steve opened a door (maybe knowingly ) on a favorite topic of mine and I walked through it. After a little note to Tom and Darrell, I'll be finished.........for now.