After Sub's - Requesting Lineups

Ref Daddy · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 22, 2002, 10:03pm

Had 3 sub's enter my last game legally, all at one time. We were shooting free throws - 1 more to go.

After a beckon, Coach yelling he wanted a "line-up".
We got it done but .....

Whats this proceedure?
Either team eligable to request it?
Whats the limits?
We set the Off/Def on the floor - should we go to the circle?
Is this in the rule book?
Can you refuse? Are they entitled?
Any limits per game?
Is it fair to the free thrower?

RSVP!

rainmaker · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 22, 2002, 10:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref Daddy
Had 3 sub's enter my last game legally, all at one time. We were shooting free throws - 1 more to go.

After a beckon, Coach yelling he wanted a "line-up".
We got it done but .....

This isn't volleyball? What is a line-up in basketball? Is this in 6th grade where the players need to "match-up" in the center of the floor? so they know who they're guarding? More details, please!!

Ref Daddy · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 22, 2002, 10:18pm

8th Grade Girls. Coach sendig the three in requested the match-up's. Said it was legal with 2 or more sub's at a time?

Other coach was listening but didn't protest.

My partner though it was cool too.

We did it.

Lotto · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 22, 2002, 10:55pm

NCAA Rule 3-4
Art. 15. When three or more substitutes for the same team enter the game, an official may honor a request by the captain of the opposing team to aid it in locating the entering players.

I've always been told that this usually is done by a lineup.

BktBallRef · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 23, 2002, 01:07am

Yeah but it's no longer in the NF rules book. They took it out. However, does that mean that we still have to honor the request?

I probably wouldn't in this sitch if I thought it was an attempt to ice the FT shooter, which it sounds like it was.

Nevadaref · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 23, 2002, 02:58am

I definitely remember this "line-up request by a captain" being in the NFHS rules book. Last year I moved and threw out all my old copies, wish I hadn't now. As BktBallRef said, it is no longer in the book.
If there is anyone out there that is still "old-school" enough to make this request I am granting it!

Can someone please go through the last 5 or 6 years of rules books and post when was the last edition that it was in the book?

bob jenkins · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 23, 2002, 09:19am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I definitely remember this "line-up request by a captain" being in the NFHS rules book. Last year I moved and threw out all my old copies, wish I hadn't now. As BktBallRef said, it is no longer in the book.
If there is anyone out there that is still "old-school" enough to make this request I am granting it!

Can someone please go through the last 5 or 6 years of rules books and post when was the last edition that it was in the book?

It was '97 or '98, iirc.

I don't (that is, I've never been asked to) line them up, but I do give a little extra time for the "I've got 22 ... no, I've got 22 , you've got 20" ritual.

devdog69 · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 23, 2002, 09:31am

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref Daddy

8th Grade Girls. Coach sendig the three in requested the match-up's. Said it was legal with 2 or more sub's at a time?

Other coach was listening but didn't protest.

My partner though it was cool too.

We did it.

From what Lotto said, even if it was NCAA rules, which I know it wasn't, it says the "opposing coach" may request. He says the coach that sent in the three subs requested.

RecRef · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 23, 2002, 09:43am

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref Daddy

8th Grade Girls. Coach sendig the three in requested the match-up's. Said it was legal with 2 or more sub's at a time?
We did it.

Rec league, or scholastic ball played under NF rules? Rec league is a yes and a why not. Scholastic ball is a no.

ChuckElias · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 23, 2002, 09:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
If there is anyone out there that is still "old-school" enough to make this request I am granting it!

"If"? "If"?!?!?! Has MTD really been quiet so long that Nevada doesn't know who he is??

Chuck

Tim C · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 23, 2002, 10:15am

Please explain why you are so adamant about not helping the teams in this situation.

Many of us "old guys" have seen this done for decades . . . kinda like Bob Jenkins I don't remember having been asked to do this but "WHY" would you you take the attitude that you display in your post.

I mean even the NCAA rules say this "can" be done if it fits . . .

Just wondered,

rainmaker · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 23, 2002, 01:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim C
Please explain why you are so adamant about not helping the teams in this situation.

Many of us "old guys" have seen this done for decades . . . kinda like Bob Jenkins I don't remember having been asked to do this but "WHY" would you you take the attitude that you display in your post.

I mean even the NCAA rules say this "can" be done if it fits . . .

Just wondered,

I wasn't taking up an attitude, just confused (Although I must admit my kids think that "confused" is my permanent attitude!). I just never heard of this or saw it at any level above about first or second year players. I'm not adamant about it, just, well, confused!

Kelvin green · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 23, 2002, 02:31pm

Tim

In this situation I will not "help" the teams. I will be adamant about this since it is not a group of third graders.

NCAA rules allows for the opposing team to identify players who just came in on a mass substitution. Even for argument's sake NF used this. This was at a FT and three players came in...

Either team that subs has 3 to 4 on the line... 1-2 in the backcourt. Now most teams who sub big guys send the big guys to the low post area, the gurads stay out high. Go figure that if youre a big guy on the paint and the other team sends two big guys in, one stands next to you, and one stands right across from you. It is not difficult for players to communicate and tell who has who. Same with gurads and forwards. If the team is playing zone then who cares unless it is a matchup zone...

A team who wants the line-up is just stalling

Now NF rules dont even have a provision. It's not our job to coach... prevent officiate yes but this does not prevent anything

Nevadaref · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 24, 2002, 06:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelvin green

Now NF rules dont even have a provision.

I guess whether we should still honor this request or not comes down to what was said in 97 or 98 when the rule was removed. The NFHS always makes a point to say what they have added or deleted each year, and often even makes comments as to why.
However, we need someone who still has these books to look this up. As I wrote earlier, I tossed my old copies.

bob jenkins · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 24, 2002, 08:21am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelvin green

Now NF rules dont even have a provision.

I guess whether we should still honor this request or not comes down to what was said in 97 or 98 when the rule was removed. The NFHS always makes a point to say what they have added or deleted each year, and often even makes comments as to why.
However, we need someone who still has these books to look this up. As I wrote earlier, I tossed my old copies.

The note was dropped without comment.