Unreported Substitute

[WestMichBlue]

What is the effect of discovering an unreported substitute an inning or two after they entered the game.

Situation: top of 6th inning, home coach tells me she is subbing 14 for 24. I walk across the field, spot the visiting scorekeeper, and announce the change. Then pull out my line-up card - and cannot find #24. The scorekeeper says that #24 is a sub.

Back across the field to home coach, tell her she is subbing a sub for a sub. No, she says, #24 was in for #3. When, I asked? Last inning. I walk back again and explain the situation to the v-scorekeeper.

This is NFHS game. I am thinking there is no deadline for discovery; it also doesn't matter who discovers. So I walk back and give the H Coach a warning; tell her that if it happen again she will lose a player. She understands; she knows the rules; and she accepts it.

For NFHS only - do you agree that unreported sub can be discovered anytime and by anyone and you still give a warning; or if the second offense you restrict the player.

In ASA how would you rule. There doesn't seem to be any time limit for the offended team to protest and for you to disqualify the player. However, if the offending team beats the other team to the discovery, then regardless of how long ago the substitution was made, it is legal - all play stands and no disqualification. Do you agree?

For ASA, if the umpire doesn't understand and challenges the coach, who offers the information that she made an unreported sub the inning before - is that discovery by the offending team - thus no penalty?

WMB

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

What is the effect of discovering an unreported substitute an inning or two after they entered the game.

Situation: top of 6th inning, home coach tells me she is subbing 14 for 24. I walk across the field, spot the visiting scorekeeper, and announce the change. Then pull out my line-up card - and cannot find #24. The scorekeeper says that #24 is a sub.

Back across the field to home coach, tell her she is subbing a sub for a sub. No, she says, #24 was in for #3. When, I asked? Last inning. I walk back again and explain the situation to the v-scorekeeper.

This is NFHS game. I am thinking there is no deadline for discovery; it also doesn't matter who discovers. So I walk back and give the H Coach a warning; tell her that if it happen again she will lose a player. She understands; she knows the rules; and she accepts it.

For NFHS only - do you agree that unreported sub can be discovered anytime and by anyone and you still give a warning; or if the second offense you restrict the player.

In ASA how would you rule. There doesn't seem to be any time limit for the offended team to protest and for you to disqualify the player. However, if the offending team beats the other team to the discovery, then regardless of how long ago the substitution was made, it is legal - all play stands and no disqualification. Do you agree?

For ASA, if the umpire doesn't understand and challenges the coach, who offers the information that she made an unreported sub the inning before - is that discovery by the offending team - thus no penalty?

WMB

In ASA, all play stands and no disqualification if discovery is made by the offending team. Even if caught by the other team, all play stands. UNLESS, the unreported sub bats and is discovered before the next pitch, runners return to the base occupied at the time of the last pitch. (Taken straight from Rules Supplement.)

IMHO, it's not up to the umpire to tell the team they have offended. So, again IMHO, there can't be any disqualification, and all play should stand.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

For NFHS only - do you agree that unreported sub can be discovered anytime and by anyone and you still give a warning; or if the second offense you restrict the player?

Yes.

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

In ASA how would you rule. There doesn't seem to be any time limit for the offended team to protest and for you to disqualify the player. However, if the offending team beats the other team to the discovery, then regardless of how long ago the substitution was made, it is legal - all play stands and no disqualification. Do you agree?

4:6:C:2:Effect. I do agree.

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

For ASA, if the umpire doesn't understand and challenges the coach, who offers the information that she made an unreported sub the inning before - is that discovery by the offending team - thus no penalty?

To quote Harvey Korman from Blazing Saddles: "Kinky. I like that."

[Little Jimmy]

West Mich,

Interesting that you posted this . Today the almost exact same thing happened to me. Fed rules. I had an unreported sub early(3rd inning) seen by home team coach after girl takes her place in right field. He tells me, I look at lineup card and see no substitution was made, visiting coach admits mistake and I give team warning. We move on.

Top of 7th. 2 outs. Visiting coach says she wants to bat #3 for #9. I pull out the lineup card and see that #3 was not in the game and had never been given to me as a sub. I ask visiting coach who says "I thought I gave that to you a couple of innings ago". I think it out and say that this is the 2nd unannounced sub and #3 is now resricted to the bench for the remainder of the game. The remainder of the game was 1 pitch to #9 who grounded out to end the game.

I don't think there is a time limit and I believe I did the right thing but at this moment don't have a rule to quote. I 'll start looking.