Unreported Substitute Questions

[rwest]

I was going over the rule book, like a good ref should, and a couple of questions came to mind.

1. Rule 4-4-A Governs what happens when an unlisted extra player enters the game. Part 3 says "If discovered while the illegal player is on base and a pitch has been thrown to the next batter, remove the illegal player from the base or if the player has scored, nullify the run, and disqualify the player from the game."

My question is when we remove the player or nullify his run, do we record an out as well? Its seems strange to me that we remove a player or nullify a run without an out.

Also, if there is a substitute can we not replace the illegal player as we do with an unreported sub in the same scenario? Why is this situation treated differently than an unreported substitute (see below)?

2. Rule 4-6-C-4 says "An unreported substitute is discovered after completing their turn at bat and after the next pitch, legal or illegal, or before the defense has left the field and before the umpires have left the field of play; EFFECT: The unreported substitute is disqualified. If on base a legal substitute takes their position on base. All advance of runner(s) as a result of the play is legal. If no legal substitute is available an out is recorded.

My question is if the unreported substitute scored is there any penalty other than they are disqualified? Their score is not nullified is it? The rulebook implies that all we get is a disqualified player, but is this true?

Please provide rule reference.

Thanks!
Randall

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by rwest
I was going over the rule book, like a good ref should, and a couple of questions came to mind.

1. Rule 4-4-A Governs what happens when an unlisted extra player enters the game. Part 3 says "If discovered while the illegal player is on base and a pitch has been thrown to the next batter, remove the illegal player from the base or if the player has scored, nullify the run, and disqualify the player from the game."

My question is when we remove the player or nullify his run, do we record an out as well? Its seems strange to me that we remove a player or nullify a run without an out.

No, this is not the same as an illegal sub or reentry. This player is batting in a non-existant position in the line-up. The only way to get an out here is if it is caught immediately after completing their turn at bat and properly appealed in a timely manner. Even then, it is the legal batter who is declared out for failing to bat.

Also, if there is a substitute can we not replace the illegal player as we do with an unreported sub in the same scenario? Why is this situation treated differently than an unreported substitute (see below)?

An place the substitute where? There is no spot in the line-up to place a substitute. This rule addresses ONLY the EP position, don't confuse it with anything else.

2. Rule 4-6-C-4 says "An unreported substitute is discovered after completing their turn at bat and after the next pitch, legal or illegal, or before the defense has left the field and before the umpires have left the field of play; EFFECT: The unreported substitute is disqualified. If on base a legal substitute takes their position on base. All advance of runner(s) as a result of the play is legal. If no legal substitute is available an out is recorded.

My question is if the unreported substitute scored is there any penalty other than they are disqualified? Their score is not nullified is it? The rulebook implies that all we get is a disqualified player, but is this true?

Please provide rule reference.

Thanks!
Randall

Once they scored, as long as it wasn't a result of their at-bat, the US is no longer officially "in the game". As noted in the rule, all play stands.