Your ruling?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Newbies first, then veterans can correct them.

Bases loaded, 2 outs, full count, R1 and R2 off on the pitch. R3 not so bright. Pop up near 2nd base. R1 scores easily. R2 scores before the ball comes down. R3, seeing the popup, gives up and is standing about 15 feet off of first base.

F4 fails to catch the popup. After the ball hits the ground, F4 chases R3 back toward first, where BR has already rounded the bag, causing R3 to run (in reverse) past BR. R3 gets all the way back to the base and is tagged (BR is about where F4 started the play when the tag is made).

How many runs score and why?

Speaking ASA SP.

None, either R1 or R2 is out for leaving the base prior to the ball reaching the plate.

[mcrowder]

Thanks for the continued derailing...

I see only one real answer so far ... go ahead and guess, non-1000-post guys.

[TwoBits]

I'm curious as to the answer. No one else seems to be.

I'm rethinking my answer though. If the BR had already touched first base, then ran past R3, then R3 is no longer entitled to first base, thus making the tag of her a fourth out. I'm a baseball guy who occasionally does softball (expected to do so in this my association), so do softball rules recognized a fourth out like baseball does?

[mcrowder]

TB - tried to send you an IM, but it's shut off on your end.

[TwoBits]

edit remove

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Getting curious as to what the answer is....

Why?

There is only one answer unless some SP guy bobs in here and talks about runners leaving early.. but mccrowder fixed that

Its a timing play, the tag is immaterial.

The out is when the "BR" passes R3 (even though its R3s fault for being a doofus)

Two run score since R2 scored before the out, 3rd out, refill sunflower seed time.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

I'm curious as to the answer. No one else seems to be.

I'm rethinking my answer though. If the BR had already touched first base, then ran past R3, then R3 is no longer entitled to first base,

Why not? What is keeping R3 from returning to 1B? Then again, why would R3 continue after the third out of the inning has been executed?

[IamMatt]

You want newbies? How about non-umps?

Assuming it is ASA fastpitch and 12U or above, I see it like Wadeintothem, all the way down to his description of R3.

R1 and R2 left their bases legally after the pitch, and scored before the 3rd out, which was when BR passed R3.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Why not? What is keeping R3 from returning to 1B? Then again, why would R3 continue after the third out of the inning has been executed?

If they're too stupid to come in out of the rain (or be off and running with two outs), they're likely one of those candidates to keep going with 3 outs...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

If they're too stupid to come in out of the rain (or be off and running with two outs), they're likely one of those candidates to keep going with 3 outs...

No argument there, John. However, I'm really more interested in the response to the first two parts of my post.

[mcrowder]

Guess this one was easier here than at our meeting the other night. Some normally rules-savvy umpires were having trouble with the idea that even though the sitch provided had BR passing unintentionally, a bright BR could do this intentionally to prevent a tag on R3 (which WOULD nullify the runs, obviously)

Should have known this group would be smarter than the general populus.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA SP.

None, either R1 or R2 is out for leaving the base prior to the ball reaching the plate.

Actually, I think you're referring to 8-7-R. If so, then I'll have to disagree with ya there. Since it was phrased "as the ball crosses the plate," I'm going to assume that the ball has reached the plate. In that case, both runners, leaving at that exact (yeah, right... I know, I know... no such thing) moment should be fine.

I'm with wadeintothem on this one, but hey... I've been known to be wrong, even when I'm right.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Actually, I think you're referring to 8-7-R. If so, then I'll have to disagree with ya there. Since it was phrased "as the ball crosses the plate," I'm going to assume that the ball has reached the plate. In that case, both runners, leaving at that exact (yeah, right... I know, I know... no such thing) moment should be fine.

I'm with wadeintothem on this one, but hey... I've been known to be wrong, even when I'm right.

Originally, the OP stated the runners were off with the pitch. The author since then had edited the scenario.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Originally, the OP stated the runners were off with the pitch. The author since then had edited the scenario.

Ahhh... Then touche. You'd be absolutely correct, sir!