Ruling

LongIslandZebra · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 06, 2005, 10:47am

Man on third 2-2 count on the batter. Pitcher goes to his mouth while walking back up the the rubber after receiving the throw back from the catcher. Umpire rules a balk. I always thought this was a ball balk and the count would go to 3-2. He awards the runner the plate and keeps the count at 2-2. The next inning, with no runners on base the other pitcher is called for the same balk with a 3-0 count on the batter. This time a ball is given and the runner is awarded first base. Was it the proper call in the first example? Besides the fact that this was an umpire harping on one call in an otherwise well played summer ball college level game.

TriggerMN · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 06, 2005, 10:54am

In Fed rules, the pitcher must be on the rubber for this to be a balk. He can be on the mound, but off the rubber, go to his mouth, and wipe it off without penalty.

That said, if he was on the rubber and went to his mouth:

A) It is a balk if runners are on base. All runners move up one base, and the count remains the same.

B) With nobody on base, one ball will be added to the count. If the count is 3-0, 3-1, or 3-2 at the time, the batter is awarded 1st base.

This is always a big topic in our American Legion pre-games with coaches. Around here they play mostly high school rules until the tournament, then switch to American League rules, where this is a balk if you are on any part of the mound.

3appleshigh · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 06, 2005, 11:37am

This is simply a ball, if the pitcher goes to his mouth while on the mound, time is called and a ball is added to the count regardless of whether there are runners or not. THIS IS NOT A BALK. EVER in OBR.

Silly side note, this rule was enforced in the final game of the National Senior ball championships in Canada like 3-4 yrs ago, bottom of 9 tie ball game bases loaded, 3-1 count, Batter got the walk winning run came in. Oh and yes all heck broke loose. Would I have wanted to make the call heck no, I like the clean end of the stick, but it was the correct by the book call.

mrm21711 · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 06, 2005, 02:01pm

OBR 8.02

The pitcher shall not -

a) 1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber.

Penalty: The umpires shall immediately call a ball.

gobama84 · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 06, 2005, 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mrm21711
OBR 8.02

The pitcher shall not -

a) 1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber.

Penalty: The umpires shall immediately call a ball.

What if you are a base umpire and make this call. How would you go about it?

SeattleMetroUmp · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 06, 2005, 05:02pm

I had this last Thursday and what I did was just mention it to the pitcher and then at the break of the inning, I told the coach and made sure the coach told his pitcher just to reinforce it a little bit more.

Pick and choose your situations!!!

Mike

gobama84 · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 07, 2005, 12:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SeattleMetroUmp
I had this last Thursday and what I did was just mention it to the pitcher and then at the break of the inning, I told the coach and made sure the coach told his pitcher just to reinforce it a little bit more.

Pick and choose your situations!!!

Mike

Did you mean pick and choose the rules you will enforce???
The rule and penalty do not say "SHOULD" it say "SHALL".

OBR 8.02

The pitcher shall not -

a) 1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber.

Penalty: The umpires shall immediately call a ball.

SeattleMetroUmp · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 07, 2005, 01:40pm

Now I am not justifying this, but the opposing coach(es) didn't say anything. This is where I am saying pick and choose your situations. I went up to the mound swept it off and told him very quietly do go off the dirt when going to his mouth. Easy as that and then I never had a problem with him the rest of the game. Don't over umpire, because that's when bad things happen.

Mike

Carbide Keyman · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 07, 2005, 02:01pm

Swept off the mound ?

Nah, too easy.

Doug

RPatrino · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 07, 2005, 03:29pm

I don't carry a push broom, so I never dust the mound, or any base other then home. I don't fix bases, water the field, rake the field, remove lines, redraw lines or any other general housekeeping items.

3appleshigh · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 09, 2005, 12:42pm

You have a perfectly good catcher who can do it for you if you want to warn him unofficially.

cowbyfan1 · #12 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 10, 2005, 12:53am

Quote:

Originally posted by RPatrino
I don't carry a push broom, so I never dust the mound, or any base other then home. I don't fix bases, water the field, rake the field, remove lines, redraw lines or any other general housekeeping items.

Well I had a disagreement with Tee about clean off the pitching rubber, and since have stopped doing it, I think what Seattle is saying is not a horrible thing. If an ump is going to do a little preventive officiating with the pitcher, kicking dirt off the rubber, while looking down at the the ground and talking to the pitcher makes it look a little less obvious.
I recently saw the videos the NCAA put out to it's umpires for training purposes and in one of the clips the home plate umpire did exactly that. He kicked around some dirt while standing between the batter and catcher while basically telling them to chill out on the talking they were doing. It was to the point with them and yet subtle to others. Was he really worried about groundskeeping? No, just keeping the game under control without blowing it out of proportion and his body actions helped in achieving that.

Kaliix · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 10, 2005, 12:00pm

Batter checks his swing on a ball in the dirt. Appeal, no go. Now the BU, a veteran on my board, goes over to the mound and starts kicking dirt off the rubber. This has me puzzled.

I asked him about it after the game. Apparently I didn't see the catcher add a ball to his current set and he was just doing the BU version of sweeping the plate.

Tim C · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 10, 2005, 12:08pm

Surprise some of you but a lusty "hooza" to Kaliix.

Even the "crusty one" would agree that to slowly walk over the kick the dirt off the pitcher's plate after F2 catches one in the cup is fine.

But SeattleMetro "dusting off" the pither's plate shows that he is a Little League umpire.

Preventive officiating is fine . . . picking battles is fine.

Dusting the Pitcher's Plate is not fine.

GarthB · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 10, 2005, 12:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by TriggerMN
In Fed rules, the pitcher must be on the rubber for this to be a balk. He can be on the mound, but off the rubber, go to his mouth, and wipe it off without penalty.

That said, if he was on the rubber and went to his mouth:

A) It is a balk if runners are on base. All runners move up one base, and the count remains the same.

B) With nobody on base, one ball will be added to the count. If the count is 3-0, 3-1, or 3-2 at the time, the batter is awarded 1st base.

This is always a big topic in our American Legion pre-games with coaches. Around here they play mostly high school rules until the tournament, then switch to American League rules, where this is a balk if you are on any part of the mound.

I imagine it must be a big topic with coaches since the umpires have it so wrong.

This is not a balk, with or without runners on. It is a ball added to the batter's count.