ASA Double Base - Purpose of 8.2.M.4.?

[wadeintothem]

Runner is out
- On any force out attempt from the foul side of first base the D and the O may use either portion of the base.

I understood this to mean the "common/lay" use of the term "Force Out" (as ASA uses elsewhere as well) as opposed to the specific written Force out definition, which would make the above make no sense.

How I understood it from the 06 Clinic was for all intents and purposes the base becomes one base once the B/R situation was resolved and my hand out from 06 seems to indicate this as well.

ie.. from EZ Teams scenario - R1@1B - Liner caught by diving F3 who lands in foul territory. Can they use orange to make the out on R1 tagging up?

-----------------

If that is not allowed by rule, which I agree strictly written rules (and common sense) do not allow it.. but then why does 8.2.M.4 exist at all?

How do you have a "definition force" at 1B?
You can have a "layman" force at 1B.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Runner is out
- On any force out attempt from the foul side of first base the D and the O may use either portion of the base.

I understood this to mean the "common/lay" use of the term "Force Out" (as ASA uses elsewhere as well) as opposed to the specific written Force out definition, which would make the above make no sense.

How I understood it from the 06 Clinic was for all intents and purposes the base becomes one base once the B/R situation was resolved and my hand out from 06 seems to indicate this as well.

ie.. from EZ Teams scenario - R1@1B - Liner caught by diving F3 who lands in foul territory. Can they use orange to make the out on R1 tagging up?

-----------------

If that is not allowed by rule, which I agree strictly written rules (and common sense) do not allow it.. but then why does 8.2.M.4 exist at all?

How do you have a "definition force" at 1B?
You can have a "layman" force at 1B.

To avoid collision and injury when the play causes the fielder to be in foul territory

i.e ball hits the white base and bounds into foul territory,
ball is booted by first baseman into foul territory, etc

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

To avoid collision and injury when the play causes the fielder to be in foul territory

i.e ball hits the white base and bounds into foul territory,
ball is booted by first baseman into foul territory, etc

whatchu talkin bout willis?

[jimpiano]

you asked "but then why does 8.2.M.4 exist at all?"

I said to avoid collisions and injuries when the play is in foul territory. That rule allows the fielder to touch the orange and the runner to choose.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

you asked "but then why does 8.2.M.4 exist at all?"

I said to avoid collisions and injuries when the play is in foul territory. That rule allows the fielder to touch the orange and the runner to choose.

That scenario is not a force. That scenario is a live ball appeal. Live ball appeal is not mentioned in the Double base rules.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

That scenario is not a force. That scenario is a live ball appeal. Live ball appeal is not mentioned in the Double base rules.

Both scenarios I mentioned are live ball forces.

Batted ball hits white portion of base and bounds into foul territory where F3 fields it......rule 8.2.4m allows fielder to touch orange portion of first base and the runner to use the white portion. The reason is to prevent a collision and possible injury, a rule change in 2006.

Same scenario would apply if the fielder booted a fair ball into foul territory and retrieved it.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Both scenarios I mentioned are live ball forces.

Batted ball hits white portion of base and bounds into foul territory where F3 fields it......rule 8.2.4m allows fielder to touch orange portion of first base and the runner to use the white portion. The reason is to prevent a collision and possible injury, a rule change in 2006.

Same scenario would apply if the fielder booted a fair ball into foul territory and retrieved it.

Ok thank you...

mike, mcrowder dakota steve.. anyone else..

[wadeintothem]

ok jim.. how are your two scenarios "live ball" forces and who are they forces on?

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

ok jim.. how are your two scenarios "live ball" forces and who are they forces on?

The ball is live in both cases and the batter/runner is forced to first base .


Rule 8 -7 g

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

The ball is live in both cases and the batter/runner is forced to first base .


Rule 8 -7 g

While I happen to agree that B/R to first should be termed a force, and the definition fixed to make it so, it's not a force Jim. Thats another convo.

Regardless, thats not my scenario, which is a b/r retired before reaching first base which is CLEARLY not a force and the rule book is very clear on this in more than one area.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

The ball is live in both cases and the batter/runner is forced to first base .


Rule 8 -7 g

That rule was citation was not correct in the question you asked.

Rule 8 2-b covers the situation...when after hitting a fair ball the batter/runner is put out before reaching first base.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

That rule was citation was not correct in the question you asked.

Rule 8 2-b covers the situation...when after hitting a fair ball the batter/runner is put out before reaching first base.

HA! Youre funny dude.

I gotta hit the sack soon, hopefully your drivel doesnt detract away from my OP as I'm curious as to what the point is of 8.2.M.4 if its not for jimpiano forces.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

HA! Youre funny dude.

I gotta hit the sack soon, hopefully your drivel doesnt detract away from my OP as I'm curious as to what the point is of 8.2.M.4 if its not for jimpiano forces.

I already told you what the reasoning of 8.2.4m is .

To prevent collisions and injuries.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I already told you what the reasoning of 8.2.4m is .

To prevent collisions and injuries.

I know what you are saying.

The thing is, there are umpires on this forum who really do know what they are talking about. They are good. I'm not trying to offend you, just stating fact:

You are not one of them.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I know what you are saying.

The thing is, there are umpires on this forum who really do know what they are talking about. They are good. I'm not trying to offend you, just stating fact:

You are not one of them.

I dont care if you believe me or not.

But I am correct.