Slow Pitch Umps

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by scottk_61

Presumtious of me to bash you???????????????
That could be but I doubt it.
I do bash umpires that make the real umpires look stupid by your omission of proper mechanics.
The signal you describe DOES INDEED violate standards covered by ASA for you to say otherwise is arrogant and stupid thus worthy of bashing.
One of my goals has been to use any means necessary to get sub-standard umpires to improve their game.
That has included being blunt, rude, beratting in fun and sometimes telling an umpire to go home.
It has also included having tons of fun, teaching, exhorting, etc.
It also has included the pleasure of seeing those who are teachable reach a deserved regional and national assignment.

Hey, if you are content to be a slug and stink up the field, so be it.
Just don't expect any kind words from real umpires, Ok?

I have seen over 30 different rule books and umpire's manuals(or variastions) since I started umpiring. The suggested mechanics have changed dozens of times. The constants center on hustle, a thorough knowledge of the rules, and to dress and behave professionally.

I made a comment about a technique that hundreds of ASA umpires, and others, use and said I liked it. It is well within the parameters of techniques that each umpire uses to manage a game.

You may not like the technique which is your choice.

Your responses, however, hardly reflect the level of achievement you claim to have.

[Dakota]

Here is my take on this topic:

1) The prescribed mechanics and signals are so partners can work with each other first time on the field and so players, coaches, and fans will know what the umpire's call is without having to hear the verbal.

2) Many umpires object to limiting themselves to these mechanics and signals because of everything from local custom to a built-in rebellious streak.

3) Non-standard signals and mechanics are evidence of a less well-trained umpire or one who basically doesn't give a damn about what his sanctioning body requires or recommends. He's gonna do it his way and nobody can stop him.

4) The fist-pounding serves no useful purpose. It communicates no information that the players need to have to know what they should do. It is no different from any other call of "ball". If there is no stealing, they don't do anything anyway. If there is stealing, the dead ball call works, is standard, and everyone understands what it means.

Fist pounding is hardly the only example of non-prescribed signals. It is, however, evidence of... well, see #3.

No one is going to change Mr Piano's mind, and if you browse the other boards on this site, you'll notice that his internet personna is at least consistent.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Here is my take on this topic:

1) The prescribed mechanics and signals are so partners can work with each other first time on the field and so players, coaches, and fans will know what the umpire's call is without having to hear the verbal.

2) Many umpires object to limiting themselves to these mechanics and signals because of everything from local custom to a built-in rebellious streak.

3) Non-standard signals and mechanics are evidence of a less well-trained umpire or one who basically doesn't give a damn about what his sanctioning body requires or recommends. He's gonna do it his way and nobody can stop him.

4) The fist-pounding serves no useful purpose. It communicates no information that the players need to have to know what they should do. It is no different from any other call of "ball". If there is no stealing, they don't do anything anyway. If there is stealing, the dead ball call works, is standard, and everyone understands what it means.

Fist pounding is hardly the only example of non-prescribed signals. It is, however, evidence of... well, see #3.

No one is going to change Mr Piano's mind, and if you browse the other boards on this site, you'll notice that his internet personna is at least consistent.

Well, your discussion in (1) is certainly true.
Your conclusion in (3) is wrong.

The mechanic I described does not violate any thing in the manual and is a well established custom in the leagues our association officiates. We sent three umpires to the nationals last year, alone.

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Well, your discussion in (1) is certainly true.
Your conclusion in (3) is wrong.

The mechanic I described does not violate any thing in the manual and is a well established custom in the leagues our association officiates. We sent three umpires to the nationals last year, alone.

And again, we see the arrogance of a willful ignorance that manifests itself in magnanimous fashion.

Why am I beginning to think this guy is a troll?

[Dakota]

I note you didn't dispute #4. So, why do it?

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Well, your discussion in (1) is certainly true.
Your conclusion in (3) is wrong.

Really? The second part of #3 doesn't fit you? Gosh, ya fooled me.

Originally Posted by jimpiano

The mechanic I described does not violate any thing in the manual ...

Not true. ASA Umpire Manual, Slow Plate Mechanics, Calling Balls and Strikes,

The umpire is not to be an announcer or broadcaster on the field. Let the people broadcasting the game describe the pitches... All the umpire should say is 'ball' or 'strike'. Describing the pitch is a cop out for an umpire... use only a slight body motion toward the location of the pitch.

There is more, but you aren't interested anyway.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I note you didn't dispute #4. So, why do it? Really? The second part of #3 doesn't fit you? Gosh, ya fooled me.

Not true. ASA Umpire Manual, Slow Plate Mechanics, Calling Balls and Strikes, There is more, but you aren't interested anyway.

There is no verbal with the double fist,,,,so the admonition about being a broadcaster or an announcer has no bearing on the discusion.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

There is no verbal with the double fist,,,,so the admonition about being a broadcaster or an announcer has no bearing on the discusion.

I understand that you have no intention of changing, let alone admitting you are wrong on this board, but you conveniently overlook the only body motion prescribed for a ball. I also said there were other instructions to umpires on making the ball call, but since you are not interested, I'm not going to waste my time typing them. Suffice it to say, your claim that the fist pounding signal does not violate ASA umpire mechanics and signals is wrong. You can continue to claim it isn't wrong, but it is.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I understand that you have no intention of changing, let alone admitting you are wrong on this board, but you conveniently overlook the only body motion prescribed for a ball. I also said there were other instructions to umpires on making the ball call, but since you are not interested, I'm not going to waste my time typing them. Suffice it to say, your claim that the fist pounding signal does not violate ASA umpire mechanics and signals is wrong. You can continue to claim it isn't wrong, but it is.

That would be your interpretation, not mine.

[JPRempe]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I have seen over 30 different rule books and umpire's manuals(or variastions) since I started umpiring. The suggested mechanics have changed dozens of times. The constants center on hustle, a thorough knowledge of the rules, and to dress and behave professionally.

I made a comment about a technique that hundreds of ASA umpires, and others, use and said I liked it. It is well within the parameters of techniques that each umpire uses to manage a game.

You may not like the technique which is your choice.

Your responses, however, hardly reflect the level of achievement you claim to have.

I just noticed he has NIF in his signature. I'd say he might be doing something right...

Just a hunch.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by JPRempe

I just noticed he has NIF in his signature. I'd say he might be doing something right...

Just a hunch.

You could be right. Then again, that would depend on where he lived. I know quite a few members of the NIF whom I wouldn't put anywhere near championship play, but received assignments to local nationals because there were so many.

Meanwhile, I know some outstanding umpires that should have been a NIF member years ago, but never got the opportunity to work one or two NCs, let alone three.

[Skahtboi]

So....was this thread really worth 122 posts???

[NDblue]

or 123 posts?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

So....was this thread really worth 122 posts???

We get points!?!? Are they interchangeable with my S&H Green Stamps?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

We get points!?!? Are they interchangeable with my S&H Green Stamps?

Only on the 5th Sunday of every other month.