Slow Pitch Umps

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You're right, we're wrong.

Isn't that amazing, all the games I've worked and I just found out I'm supposed to look like a clone!

If you had any experience at the upper levels, you would see that all those who do it right, all do it a little bit differently. None of us look the same on the field, yet we all subscribed to the prescribed mechanics.

Just continue doing what you do. It actually makes the guys who do it right look that much better. And for that, thank you.

Mike,

The only right way is to hustle and know the rules. After that game management is determined by the umpire and the players in the game. A hand signal that helps them understand is hardly a tool that should be held against an umpire. The double fist is appropraite at some levels and not needed in others.

I simply thank whoever invented it becauase it has been a useful tool over the years in letting all the players in the field know what happened.

[archangel]

How ironic that after 30 yrs of pitching- maybe 1000 Sp games played, and 10 years of umping SP and varsity baseball, I have never seen or heard of that "mechanic".....

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by archangel

How ironic that after 30 yrs of pitching- maybe 1000 Sp games played, and 10 years of umping SP and varsity baseball, I have never seen or heard of that "mechanic".....

Well, you are not going to see it in baseball, but if you never saw it in 1000 SP games, you must have been blessed with well-trained umpires.

Yeah, I know, what's this world coming to!!!

[Dakota]

I have a question: Why is it necessary, or even good, for the umpire to make sure that all the players know the reason for a pitch being called a BALL?

[ukumpire]

It is my believe, (and I read part of it somewhere in this thread) that the 'fists together' is only done at lower end slowpitch, and it is normally only done when that 12" or 11" sucker hits the ground and edge of plate simultaneously, thus still causing a bounce. If it is straight edge of plate then it slides or spins to the ground. Certainly in ISF and I believe in ASA this is not the norm for the umpire to assist the pitcher, but it is infact the catchers duty to inform the pitcher. We do not have signs for inside / outside, so why a ball on plate. Let the catcher at least do something in slowpitch than just throwing it back to the pitcher after every ball! Well, okay, they also cover 1st after a hit!!! The point is that you will never see it for obviuos reasons in fast or baseball ... And if that young man has never seen the signal after 1000 games pitching and umpiring then all I can say is WOW ...

[Skahtboi]

I guess to me, the "hitting the plate" mechanic being described is pretty pointless. It is a case where the umpire, usually unsure of himself, feels the need to tell everyone where the pitch was, like verbally calling "inside" or "low" or "high" or "outside." One of my favorites I heard one of these directions givers use was "at the knees," but we won't go into the problems inherent with that. I don't see why the umpire just doesn't call "off the plate," or something of that nature, rather than using the "fist indicator."

[ukumpire]

Better still - 'Don't Call Nothing'
Okay end of this thread for me . it's too long

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

... It is a case where the umpire, usually unsure of himself, feels the need to tell everyone where the pitch was, like verbally calling "inside" or "low" or "high" or "outside." ...

That is not limited to slow pitch umpires. And, I agree, that it seems to me to indicate a lack of confidence - trying to forestall the griping and such. The most I do in this regard is the slight "look" or head movement in the direction of where the pitch missed (but, I'm talking FP, not SP).

If the catcher asks, I'll answer. If the coach asks I'll sometimes answer; sometimes I'll tell the catcher what to tell the coach.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I guess to me, the "hitting the plate" mechanic being described is pretty pointless. It is a case where the umpire, usually unsure of himself, feels the need to tell everyone where the pitch was, like verbally calling "inside" or "low" or "high" or "outside." One of my favorites I heard one of these directions givers use was "at the knees," but we won't go into the problems inherent with that. I don't see why the umpire just doesn't call "off the plate," or something of that nature, rather than using the "fist indicator."

If you don't like the mechanic, dont use it.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

A hand signal that helps them understand is hardly a tool that should be held against an umpire. The double fist is appropraite at some levels and not needed in others.

I simply thank whoever invented it becauase it has been a useful tool over the years in letting all the players in the field know what happened.

I'm still confused.

If the ball is hit and fouls back to the fence, do you do your little fist pumping action for that dead ball?

Or if there's an interference call from the runner who crashed into F4 about to receive the batted ball - fist pump? Maybe a double fist pump since two people collided?

What about when Sheri the Office Manager fouls one into her right foot? Is that a "fist-to-foot pump" mechanic? Does it change if it's her left foot?

No of course you don't do those mechanics. Why? Because they're not prescribed mechanics.

So why the hell do you "fist pump" when it hits the plate?

A ball that hits the plate is dead. Period. Give the Dead Ball signal (stealing or not), then call the ball. The If the players ask you why it's a dead ball, tell them why. But don't be using lazy-assed, sandlot mechanics.

PS: is your last name Gilman?

[jimpiano]

Unless there is stealing, the result of any legal pitch that is not swung at is a dead bal in slow pitch. Why would you use a dead ball signal for a pitch that hit the plate? If you use it to let everyone know that the reason the pitch is a ball is beause it hit the plate, how is that any differnt than a double fist?

Why in the world you jump on umpires who use the double fist is beyond me.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Why in the world you jump on umpires who use the double fist is beyond me.

Okay. I'll take a crack.

(But somehow I doubt that you're going to listen to me any more than you've listened to anyone else here.)

Because this is not an approved signal as desribed in any umpire manual that I am aware of.

I don't know what your situation is, as far as local associations, evaluations or game assignments are concerned. For me, if I am being evaluated and use non-standard signals I can count on being dinged by the evaluator. This can stifle advancement and lead to fewer game assignments.

If you start using non-approved signals, where do you draw the line? Should umpires have their own set of signals to use however they see fit?

Here's a line from the ASA umpire manual:

"The adopted signals are dignified, informative, meaningful, and therefore, shall be used by all umpires. Poorly executed and unauthorized signals serve only to confuse."

Since these are the guidelines I'm evaluated under, I do not use non-standard signals.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Okay. I'll take a crack.

(But somehow I doubt that you're going to listen to me any more than you've listened to anyone else here.)

Because this is not an approved signal as desribed in any umpire manual that I am aware of.

I don't know what your situation is, as far as local associations, evaluations or game assignments are concerned. For me, if I am being evaluated and use non-standard signals I can count on being dinged by the evaluator. This can stifle advancement and lead to fewer game assignments.

If you start using non-approved signals, where do you draw the line? Should umpires have their own set of signals to use however they see fit?

Here's a line from the ASA umpire manual:

"The adopted signals are dignified, informative, meaningful, and therefore, shall be used by all umpires. Poorly executed and unauthorized signals serve only to confuse."

Since these are the guidelines I'm evaluated under, I do not use non-standard signals.

I have neer been dinged by any evaluator, or anyone, for using the double fist to signify the ball hitting the plate.

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

I have neer been dinged by any evaluator, or anyone, for using the double fist to signify the ball hitting the plate.

I have stayed out of this a bit just to let the other voices of experience (and those who give a sh** about doing things right) BUT...................

If you want to use a weird mechanic and thus "teach" the teams you work with that doing things half_a$$ is what you are all about, then fine.
Have fun.
If you want to do things right, help the teams have a good game without conflict, and be able to understand the umpires they do have that are good.

THEN DO IT RIGHT.

I worked for years to learn all that I could about proper mechanics and still keep learning as the requirements change. I take pride in myself and my fellow blues.
I expect the game to be done correctly by me and my partners.
But then again, I have had higher aspirations as to game assignments.
I wanted to become a ASA Gold umpire at first,
Then I wanted to be a member of the National Indicator Fraternity
Then I wanted to become as ASA ELITE,
Then I wanted my ISF.

I achieved my goals.
Working around 35 - 38 Nationals over the years.
I have enjoyed the time with many great memories.

One thing I have found at every National I have ever worked,
Team complaints about the "umpire back home" who did this or that etc that had nothing to do with proper mechanics or rules application.

So, if you don't give a rat's a$$ about doing it right for your own games, consider and show some respect for your fellow blues and stick to the prescribed mechanics so we don't have to "re-educate" the teams when they make it to a regional or a national tounament.

This really is about respect,
Your respect for the game and your responsibility to the teams that you serve.
OK

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by scottk_61

I have stayed out of this a bit just to let the other voices of experience (and those who give a sh** about doing things right) BUT...................

If you want to use a weird mechanic and thus "teach" the teams you work with that doing things half_a$$ is what you are all about, then fine.
Have fun.
If you want to do things right, help the teams have a good game without conflict, and be able to understand the umpires they do have that are good.

THEN DO IT RIGHT.

I worked for years to learn all that I could about proper mechanics and still keep learning as the requirements change. I take pride in myself and my fellow blues.
I expect the game to be done correctly by me and my partners.
But then again, I have had higher aspirations as to game assignments.
I wanted to become a ASA Gold umpire at first,
Then I wanted to be a member of the National Indicator Fraternity
Then I wanted to become as ASA ELITE,
Then I wanted my ISF.

I achieved my goals.
Working around 35 - 38 Nationals over the years.
I have enjoyed the time with many great memories.

One thing I have found at every National I have ever worked,
Team complaints about the "umpire back home" who did this or that etc that had nothing to do with proper mechanics or rules application.

So, if you don't give a rat's a$$ about doing it right for your own games, consider and show some respect for your fellow blues and stick to the prescribed mechanics so we don't have to "re-educate" the teams when they make it to a regional or a national tounament.

This really is about respect,
Your respect for the game and your responsibility to the teams that you serve.
OK

It is rather presumptious and unprofessional for you to bash anyone,especially one you do not know.

The signal I desribed, the double fist for ball hitting the plate, violates no standard covered by ASA. I find it useful at several levels in making the game enjoyable and informational for the players.

I would never use it at an advanced level of play since it would be of no value.


I am glad you reached your goals, although I am sure one of them was not to be rude.