Did I handle this situation correctly?

[NDblue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA. If F3 was behind R1, the ball is dead, the BR is awarded 1B and any runners forced are advanced.

Does it really matter where F3 is located? If the ball hit a batter while still in contact with the base and the ball is fair batted, isn't it still a "live" ball? I would have no call, BU doesn't call time in my games at the plate, runner out at second because of force, runner on first and let's play ball. I'm still trying to figure out why Mark fell into foul territory.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Does it really matter where F3 is located?

If the runner is in contact with the base when hit by the ball, the runner is not out.

If the ball hits the runner before it passes an infielder other than the pitcher, it is a dead ball. If the ball hits the runner after it passes an infielder, it probably will be a live ball unless other fielders could make a play. (After "unless" varies slightly by which set of rules are being used.)

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Does it really matter where F3 is located? If the ball hit a batter while still in contact with the base and the ball is fair batted, isn't it still a "live" ball? I would have no call, BU doesn't call time in my games at the plate, runner out at second because of force, runner on first and let's play ball. I'm still trying to figure out why Mark fell into foul territory.

If F3 is in front of the base, the ball remains alive, as there was no play, and thus no matter that the ball hit R1. If F3 is behind the base, and perhaps had a play, that causes the ball to be dead when it hits R1. If runner is on the base, dead ball, BR given 1st, others advance only if forced.

While I agree that BU doesn't call "time", BU should call a dead ball; and this was one, by rule.

[JollyJim]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

If F3 is in front of the base, the ball remains alive, as there was no play, and thus no matter that the ball hit R1. If F3 is behind the base, and perhaps had a play, that causes the ball to be dead when it hits R1. If runner is on the base, dead ball, BR given 1st, others advance only if forced.

While I agree that BU doesn't call "time", BU should call a dead ball; and this was one, by rule.

F3 was behind the baseline, but definitely had no play on the ball. He was playing off the line, and the ball was obviously traveling fast enough and was hit close enough to the first base line that F3 had no play on the ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Does it really matter where F3 is located? If the ball hit a batter while still in contact with the base and the ball is fair batted, isn't it still a "live" ball? I would have no call, BU doesn't call time in my games at the plate, runner out at second because of force, runner on first and let's play ball. I'm still trying to figure out why Mark fell into foul territory.

You really need to reread POE #44 on page 156 of the 2006 ASA rule book. You're ruling would be incorrect if the closest defender was not playing in front of R1.

BTW, any umpire may kill the play at any time if the situation or rules require it.

[JollyJim]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Does it really matter where F3 is located? If the ball hit a batter while still in contact with the base and the ball is fair batted, isn't it still a "live" ball? I would have no call, BU doesn't call time in my games at the plate, runner out at second because of force, runner on first and let's play ball. I'm still trying to figure out why Mark fell into foul territory.

This was my thinking on the matter, although I may have been wrong.... and I'm still trying to figure out why Mark fell at all!!! The guy is built like Tarzan and definitely wasn't knocked down. Guess he just felt it was the thing to do...since he wasn't gonna make it to second anyway. And here's another kicker that was brought to my attention in discussing with our UIC, who wasn't there at the time. The batter/runner crossed 1B while Mark was still on the ground in foul territory beside 1B. Wouldn't that make the batter/runner out for passing R1?

[SC Ump]

I have not seen where you said what rule set you were under, but as far as I know all softball codes agree with the following responses:

Originally Posted by JollyJim

F3 was behind the baseline, but definitely had no play on the ball.

If the ball has not passed a fielder (other than the pitcher) it is dead. It does not matter if F3 did or did not have a play on the ball.

Originally Posted by JollyJim

And here's another kicker that was brought to my attention in discussing with our UIC, who wasn't there at the time. The batter/runner crossed 1B while Mark was still on the ground in foul territory beside 1B. Wouldn't that make the batter/runner out for passing R1?

1. The ball was dead when it hit "Mark", so what happen subsequently does not matter.
2. If there were a play where B1 was on 1B and was remaining in contact with 1B and B/R overran 1B (not advancing to 2B, but just overrunning), this would not be passing the runner. In the original play above, if F3 had been in front 1B it would have been a live ball. If everything else was the same, with Mark falling into foul territory, I do not believe I would have judged that Mark was retreating to home plate and thus I would not have ruled B/R had passed him.

(Note: I realize "retreating to home" might bring up a whole other discussion. Before it starts, and if it does, remember that in softball, it is a dead ball and an out if a B/R retreats to home to avoid a tag.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by NDblue

. . .BU doesn't call time in my games at the plate. . .

Why not? I can think of many instances where that would be the proper call for the BU.