Game over or keep playing?????????

[Keith]

Long time reader-first time poster.
Situation: Bottom of 6th. 2 outs, 3-2 count Batter checks her swing......or did she - P/U asks B/U "Did she go" B/U signals swing. Now the tricky part-
Games are 1:15 time limit. When the ball crossed the plate there was still time on the clock ( 2 seconds ), by the time the B/U signled swing time had expired. I've asked many differant umps whose opion I value & the opions have been split, Some say, game over out was made after time had expired, others saying the strike out occured with time on the clock & since it was a correctable situation go to the 7th. What do you think?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Keith

Long time reader-first time poster.
Situation: Bottom of 6th. 2 outs, 3-2 count Batter checks her swing......or did she - P/U asks B/U "Did she go" B/U signals swing. Now the tricky part-
Games are 1:15 time limit. When the ball crossed the plate there was still time on the clock ( 2 seconds ), by the time the B/U signled swing time had expired. I've asked many differant umps whose opion I value & the opions have been split, Some say, game over out was made after time had expired, others saying the strike out occured with time on the clock & since it was a correctable situation go to the 7th. What do you think?

I'm inclined to say that the inning ended when the BU indicated "SWING" = game over.

Different but same?: Time expired 2 seconds AFTER a 3rd out, but defense properly dead ball appeals an advantageous 4th out after time has expired. (Oh goodness, there it is again.) By Rule 1's "Inning - ...A new inning begins after the final out of the previous inning," I would state that the game is over (since it doesn't say "after the 3rd out.").

[whiskers_ump]

Start a new game....Game over

[Andy]

Two points:

1. What would have happened if the PU had not gone for help? Ball 4, runner at first, next batter. Time would expire during this activity and you finish the inning.

2. This batter is not out until a call is made that puts her out. Since the PU is asking for help on the check swing, he has most likely judged the pitch a ball. The batter is not out until the BU declares that she swung for the third strike.

Either way....time has expired, ball game is over.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

What a stupid time limit.

[JEL]

Who was it that said...."It ain't an out 'til I calls it an out"?


Final out occured when BU said "yes". Game over!

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

What a stupid time limit.

time limit too long?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

What a stupid time limit.

Why is everything that is different from your area "stupid". This is becoming an annoying trend from you.

[mcrowder]

The out occurs when the out occurs, cliches not withstanding. The out does not occur when it's called. In fact, there are outs that we don't call (obvious fly balls, etc).

So if you are going by the book here, you have another inning.

I suspect, however, that 95% of the umpires you come across will not notice the time on the clock at the moment of the check swing (whether the not-noticing is intentional or not is probably split fairly evenly).

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

The out occurs when the out occurs, cliches not withstanding. The out does not occur when it's called. In fact, there are outs that we don't call (obvious fly balls, etc).

So if you are going by the book here, you have another inning.

I suspect, however, that 95% of the umpires you come across will not notice the time on the clock at the moment of the check swing (whether the not-noticing is intentional or not is probably split fairly evenly).

I dont agree - the clock doesnt stop during any other "ask for help", so it wouldnt stop in the last seconds either. Its as legit a use of time to go for help on this as it is to appeal. The out here does not occur til the BU signals strike on the help. PU calls ball then goes for help.

Your interpretation leads to a soccer like scenario where time would get added on for this or that throughout the game, thus making life suck

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Why is everything that is different from your area "stupid". This is becoming an annoying trend from you.

No, time limit is wayyyy to short. 6 innings in 1:15. I say more like 2 hour limit.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

No, time limit is wayyyy to short. 6 innings in 1:15. I say more like 2 hour limit.

1:00 to an 1:30 seems to be the norm for softball. Most of the games I work don't even go 2:00 for a 7 inning game.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

No, time limit is wayyyy to short. 6 innings in 1:15. I say more like 2 hour limit.

Nice of you to Say So. I'll alert all the local leagues I work with that YOU have deemed 2 hours the proper time.

Instead of calling something for which you know nothing (the list grows...) "Stupid", perhaps you should ask about the reasoning behind what you would consider a very short time limit.

Then those of us who've done this for more than 8 minutes could enlighten you. In my case, most of the league games are played during the week and in the evening. We are a bit on the outskirts, so asking anyone to make a game before 6 is unreasonable. Asking the kids (anywhere from 6 to 16) to be out past 10 is also unreasonable. So by your law, we could never play 2 in an evening. 1:15 is short, but in MOST games the outcome is pretty well determined by then.

With the older girls, the JV often plays at 6, with the varsity showing up to play at 7:30. No time limit on the varsity, but we're NEVER going to hold up the varsity game so we can play a longer JV game --- so 1:15 is often what they play as well (if the visitor is close, sometimes we get going by 5:30, and use 1:45 time limit).

So, as you can see, sometimes 1:15 is the BEST of all possible solutions among a list of unideal choices. Far from STUPID.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

No, time limit is wayyyy to short. 6 innings in 1:15. I say more like 2 hour limit.

Just completed a national where all games were 1:40 limit, including championship and if.

Most games which timed out did so in the 7th inning. Those few which timed out earlier involved two weak teams or were extremely lopsided.

If your norm is 2 hours to complete 6 innings, I feel sorry for you.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

No, time limit is wayyyy to short. 6 innings in 1:15. I say more like 2 hour limit.

If I show up and its 110 drop dead.. i know its gonna be a good day