Playing with 4 players

Ricejock · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 03:47pm

Situation today in a JV game. Team A starts with 5 players and no one on the bench. When I closed the book before the game started they had 7 plyers listed. One of the players sprains her ankle, and coach FF game. My question is if they would have played with 4 players and (A) one of the other listed players in the book shows up could thay enter the game? (B) the player who got hurt came back in? Is this legal, can't find this in the book.

MN 3 Sport Ref · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 03:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Ricejock
Situation today in a JV game. Team A starts with 5 players and no one on the bench. When I closed the book before the game started they had 7 plyers listed. One of the players sprains her ankle, and coach FF game. My question is if they would have played with 4 players and (A) one of the other listed players in the book shows up could thay enter the game? (B) the player who got hurt came back in? Is this legal, can't find this in the book.

yes and yes. I'm checking fed book now. Someone will beat me to it though I bet

Ridge Wiz · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 03:58pm

IMO; Normally the book only has what you can't do. So it's kind of like forgiveness is better than permission. Therefore, if it ain't there then you can do it.

The way I interpret the less than 5 players rule is this; A has two outstanding players left in closing seconds of the game & A is ahead by several points. A1 fouls out. A2 can finish the game if B can't score enough points to go ahead with time remaining. Yes A would have to throw the ball to B & play defense after B makes a basket. But I'm only talking closing seconds.

For example; A is 8+ points ahead & there is only 5 or less seconds left in the game.

MN 3 Sport Ref · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 03:59pm

Quickly scanned casebook and saw nothing related directly to this situation. I know we have discussed this in a previous thread. The injured player is allowed to return after becoming bench personell as soon as the clock starts following that dead ball. Team A may play w/ 4 until he/she is ready if they have no subs. As long as the non present subs are listed correctly in the book they may immediately enter the game when they arrive (according to sub procedures). That team may also add another player if they wish (maybe from previous B game??) at the penalty of a T for adding a name to the score book.

Jurassic Referee · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 31, 2003, 04:10pm

Legal- see ruling for casebook play 3.2SitB.That should cover it.

Nevadaref · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 01, 2003, 05:45am

If a team shows up with 6, but only lists 5 in the book by mistake, and only plays these five until one of them is disqualified, must the sixth player enter at this time, thus forcing a T, or can the team continue with 4.
Basically, is the sixth player to be considered an eligible player or not?

[Edited by Nevadaref on Feb 1st, 2003 at 05:47 AM]

RookieDude · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 01, 2003, 06:25am

We go back to the old argument of..."when the coach says she/he is not eligible, then she/he is not eligible".

Maybe the kid is getting disciplined, maybe the kid is injured, maybe a whole host of reasons...the coach says "not eligible", then I say OK..."not eligible".

Dude

Nevadaref · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 01, 2003, 06:50am

RD,
I edited my original post to make it clear that this was an oversight and not an intentional benching by the coach. To clarify my question is then: Is a person properly dressed in a uniform and sitting on the bench, but not listed in the book, an eligible team member? Do the rules force this person to play and thus force the technical foul?

moose69 · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 01, 2003, 08:02am

The only thing that comes to mind is that the game will be forfeited once a team only has one available player left, unless the referee has grounds to believe that they have a chance of winning. This is for disqualifications but i would imagine it would apply here aswell.

TR

Jurassic Referee · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 01, 2003, 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
RD,
I edited my original post to make it clear that this was an oversight and not an intentional benching by the coach. To clarify my question is then: Is a person properly dressed in a uniform and sitting on the bench, but not listed in the book, an eligible team member? Do the rules force this person to play and thus force the technical foul?

No,there is no rule that will make the coach add this person to the team member list.That is completely up to the coach.The only rule that applies is R10-1-2a,which makes it a T as soon as,or if, the coach decides to add the name to make the player eligible to play.There is no rule that states that injured,suspended or ineligible players can't sit on the bench during a game in uniform.

BigJoe · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Feb 01, 2003, 01:00pm

What I am wondering is why did the coach forfeit the game just because he was down to four players? Did he need the quarters for varsity? Can you help us out Rice Jock. I might not be the only one with a puzzled look on his face. As usual, the guys on this forum nailed the rule references. It is good coaching to list in the book all players who might play whether they are on the bench at the start of the game or not. Maybe they are playing in a ninth grade game or something.

Nevadaref · #12 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 02, 2003, 05:27am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
RD,
I edited my original post to make it clear that this was an oversight and not an intentional benching by the coach. To clarify my question is then: Is a person properly dressed in a uniform and sitting on the bench, but not listed in the book, an eligible team member? Do the rules force this person to play and thus force the technical foul?

No,there is no rule that will make the coach add this person to the team member list.That is completely up to the coach.The only rule that applies is R10-1-2a,which makes it a T as soon as,or if, the coach decides to add the name to make the player eligible to play.There is no rule that states that injured,suspended or ineligible players can't sit on the bench during a game in uniform.

JR,
How do you classify that kid that sits on the bench, dressed in uniform, but not listed in the book? Bench personnel, substitute, team member, other?

Jurassic Referee · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 02, 2003, 11:35am

Nevada,I'd just call them "bench personnel",as per the language of casebook play 10.4.1SitA. Any sub-classifying is pretty well up to the head coach,as far as I'm concerned.He can designate assistant coaches,managers,trainers,etc.,and we don't get involved at all with what he wants to call people.I think that all we have to remember is that none of them are players until their names get entered into the scorebook as such. Sound reasonable?

Nevadaref · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 04, 2003, 08:13am

JR,
Thanks for the help. I was bouncing some thoughts off you in order to help me define "eligible to play." I have decided to go with: dressed in uniform AND listed in the score book. If either of these two requirements is not met then I am going to say that this person is not eligible to play.
Therefore, in the senario I asked about, the coach cannot be forced to play that last kid. He may finish the game with four.
However, if that last kid is listed in the book, but is listed with an incorrect number, I am going to rule that he must play and that the team has to take the T.